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Thread: Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

  1. #1
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    Default Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    The posted queston:
    Is it legal to use a 12 volt electromagnet that is attached to a winch or ball screw driven by a KOP motor to move the magnet vertically or horizontally to attach to a piece metal to be pulled and released? The magnet is not being used to create any motion just to lock onto the piece of metal. The components, piece of metal and magnet, will be moved by another motor included in the KOP. Then the magnet will release the piece of metal. Is this legal according to rules, R02, R03, R52, R53, R71, R72, and all others?

    The posted response:
    There is no rule that would prohibit this.

    This confuses our team even further. Electric solenoids are not allowed according to the rules, R53. Since the GDC will not provide a definition for an electric solenoid, from reading all the questions and responses we can only determine that an electric solenoid is a device that contains an electric magnet that when energized or de-energized, causes movement of another metallic object.

    Devices that cause a pin to move are solenoids, devices that cause a clutch plate to attract and lock to the magnet are solenoids, it seems like every question concerning electric magnets and movement are solenoids.

    So, why is this type of use allowed? A magnetic is being energized and de-energized and causing a piece of metal to move. Causing non-movement is the same as causing movement. A magnetic force is being applied to cause some motion to happen or not happen.

    We just do not understand how this device is not a solenoid by definition and how Rule 53 does not apply.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    As noted in your question, an electric solenoid contains an electric magnet that when energized or de-energized, causes movement of another metallic object. The original question explicitly stated that for the device in question, the magnet was "not being used to create any motion." Therefore, it is not a solenoid and the solenoid rules do not apply.

    Further, it is noted that "causing non-movement is" NOT "the same as causing movement." There are fundamental differences in inertia and momentum involved in these two concepts.

  3. #3
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    Default Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    Original Post
    The posted queston:
    Is it legal to use a 12 volt electromagnet that is attached to a winch or ball screw driven by a KOP motor to move the magnet vertically or horizontally to attach to a piece metal to be pulled and released? The magnet is not being used to create any motion just to lock onto the piece of metal. The components, piece of metal and magnet, will be moved by another motor included in the KOP. Then the magnet will release the piece of metal. Is this legal according to rules, R02, R03, R52, R53, R71, R72, and all others?

    The posted response:
    There is no rule that would prohibit this.

    This confuses our team even further. Electric solenoids are not allowed according to the rules, R53. Since the GDC will not provide a definition for an electric solenoid, from reading all the questions and responses we can only determine that an electric solenoid is a device that contains an electric magnet that when energized or de-energized, causes movement of another metallic object.

    Devices that cause a pin to move are solenoids, devices that cause a clutch plate to attract and lock to the magnet are solenoids, it seems like every question concerning electric magnets and movement are solenoids.

    So, why is this type of use allowed? A magnetic is being energized and de-energized and causing a piece of metal to move. Causing non-movement is the same as causing movement. A magnetic force is being applied to cause some motion to happen or not happen.

    We just do not understand how this device is not a solenoid by definition and how Rule 53 does not apply.

    GDC response
    As noted in your question, an electric solenoid contains an electric magnet that when energized or de-energized, causes movement of another metallic object. The original question explicitly stated that for the device in question, the magnet was "not being used to create any motion." Therefore, it is not a solenoid and the solenoid rules do not apply.

    The GDC should then clarify its original answer to the post of

    "to move the magnet vertically or horizontally to attach to a piece metal to be pulled and released? The magnet is not being used to create any motion just to lock onto the piece of metal. The components, piece of metal and magnet, will be moved by another motor included in the KOP. Then the magnet will release the piece of metal."

    to state as long as the piece of metal that the electromagnet is used to attached to pull or released does not cause any motion of that piece of metal when being moved. If the magnet is just being used to 'stay still' then perhaps ok. If the emagnet is being used to attach to a piece of metal and then being move by moving the magnet vertically or horizontally, then motion is occuring of that piece. If this type of motion is acceptable, then the same could be applied in a rotary fashion vs vertically or horizontally.

  4. #4
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    Default Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    I am reposting to make the question simpler.

    Previously posted:
    Is it legal to use a 12 volt electromagnet that is attached to a winch or ball screw driven by a KOP motor to move the magnet vertically or horizontally to attach to a piece metal to be pulled and released? The magnet is not being used to create any motion just to lock onto the piece of metal. The components, piece of metal and magnet, will be moved by another motor included in the KOP. Then the magnet will release the piece of metal. Is this legal according to rules, R02, R03, R52, R53, R71, R72, and all others?

    Posted response:
    There is no rule that would prohibit this.

    As above, a winch is moving an emagnet vertically or horizontally to attach to a piece of metal to be pulled and released. The winch moves the magnet that moves the metal and then is released.

    We wish to use a similar setup. Use an electric magnet to attach to a piece of metal. The magnetic is moved in a rotating direction vs vertical or horizontal by a toughbox gearbox. As above the magnet is not being used to create any motion just to lock onto a piece of metal. The magnet is energized and locks onto a piece of metal. This component of magnet and metal will be moved by the toughbox, not the magnet, then the magnet will be released. Is this legal as in the previous post and according to rules, R02, R03, R52, R53, R71, R72, and all others?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    We believe our previous answers have been correct and complete. If there is a specific question on this topic regarding a rule or interpretation of a rule, please clearly state your question and resubmit.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Precise ElectroMagnet Question Reposted

    In reference to the 2/10, 7:21pm post, there is no rule that would prohibit this.
    Last edited by GDC; 02-12-2010 at 01:55 PM.

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