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Thread: Rules for Lego Sumo

  1. #1
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    Default Rules for Lego Sumo

    A couple of local teams are thinking of doing Lego Sumo in the FLL offseason. Are there any recommendations regarding the rules we should use? I'm aware of the ones at http://robogames.net/rules/all-sumo.php but am wondering if there are others.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by dnb View Post
    A couple of local teams are thinking of doing Lego Sumo in the FLL offseason. Are there any recommendations regarding the rules we should use? I'm aware of the ones at http://robogames.net/rules/all-sumo.php but am wondering if there are others.

    Thanks!
    We started with almost no rules -- a simple 4' circle with the 2" contrasting ring of color around the edge. 2.5 minute time limit but I think we only got to that 1 time in well over 50 matches. We didn't worry about weight or size limits, but we only did sumo within our own team. We only allowed the same parts as allowed in the Body Forward rules.

    We had to add a rule or two after matches started; kids were doing last-minute position adjustments that we wanted to stop. If we were to expand it to other teams I'd probably put in weight limits.

    Our kids, our mentors, and the technical coach participated. There was an additional "secret" rule -- mentors & the coach weren't allowed to build an unbeatable robot. The mentors did a great job with that rule; they tried to get too sophisticated & paid for it. I didn't do as well; hopefully this year some of the returning kids figure out that you can use more than 2 drive motors....

    After we had the basic two-robot matches we did a free-for-all with all 7 robots. I think the kids enjoyed that as much as they did anything else.
    Mentor: FLL Trailridge Timberbots, FRC Team Titanium (1986)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by dnb View Post
    A couple of local teams are thinking of doing Lego Sumo in the FLL offseason.
    This is a brilliant idea. It'll give the teams some mano-a-mano robot action that they dream of but do not get to do in an FLL tournament.
    Team: Omnitechniks
    FLL Coach - 2010, 2011, 2012

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by dnb View Post
    A couple of local teams are thinking of doing Lego Sumo in the FLL offseason. Are there any recommendations regarding the rules we should use? I'm aware of the ones at http://robogames.net/rules/all-sumo.php but am wondering if there are others.

    Thanks!
    We start our robots facing away from each other after a 2 second pause and have a time limit of 2 minutes. In addition to pushing the opponent out of the ring for a win, you can win by up-ending the opponent.

    Since the initial focus of the class is programming, everyone starts out with an Express-Bot from www.nxtprograms.com so we don't have weight or size restrictions.

    We use LEGO sumo as a progressive culminating activity. After teaching the kids how to use the Move Block and Wait Block with Touch Sensor, Ultrasonic Sensor, and Light Sensor, we have a sumo tournament. The students are allowed to add a pushing attachment on the front and/or back of the Express-Bot, but that's it.

    As mentioned above, we start our robots facing away from each other. Typically, the robots will move forward, detect the white border, stop, turn, and then move forward again. The key here is the type of turn they decide to use and the duration of the turn. They usually use a Point Turn, or what my class calls the Tank Turn. The robots randomly move around the sumo ring until one of them catches the other at the correct angle for pushing them out of the ring or flip them over.

    As we progress and their programming gets more sophisticated, we revisit the sumo ring. For example, after introducing the Random Block, we'll use that to generate a random number into the duration setting or power setting of a Move Block to generate random turns. After introducing the Motor Block and attaching a motor to Port A, teams design an arm to either push, flip, or hammer the opponent. (They quickly learn the hammer flips themselves over.)

    When we're finished with the programming aspect of the class and get into design and free-building, we revisit the sumo ring again.

    Randy Kamiya

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    We're still doing Lego sumo in the pre-season. One rule not mentioned is the mandatory time delay between pushing start and the beginning of robot motion. I think the "real" rules specify a 5-second wait. This allows for radical designs to be started then placed on the table.

    Also, we start with robots beside each other with the opponent on the right. I tried to get the kids to pay attention to starting position in their tactics by mentioning that the start is the only time you're really sure where the other guy is. They were still surprised when my machine eventually did a quick 180 and chased the other one off the board in the first 10 sec.. I pointed out that there was nothing keeping them from copying that tactic. SMOP - simple matter of programming.

    I have some pictures about how to build a sumo table if any of you think you need them.
    Bill Bourn
    Coach, FLL#91 F L eLements
    Mentor, FRC#2170 Titanium Tomahawks

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by dnb View Post
    A couple of local teams are thinking of doing Lego Sumo in the FLL offseason. Are there any recommendations regarding the rules we should use? I'm aware of the ones at http://robogames.net/rules/all-sumo.php but am wondering if there are others.

    Thanks!
    Digging up an old thread, because we are going to try this in January...

    Last year I had found a simplified set of rules that included table building instructions and all the basic info we would need to run a contest. I've since misplaced the link, and apparently that page's rank has dropped in google because I can't find it anywhere. There seem to be a dozen or more variations, though.

    Anyone have a "best, simple" set of rules? Thanks

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    If you are only doing the sumo intra-murally, you can make your own rules before starting and still call it sumo or whatever else you think is a good name. I bet Push'emallabout would be a hit, for instance. To me, the biggest difference is the black/white or white/black playing field coloring. If you intend to go to a tournament, make sure you run your robots' development according to their rules.

    If field construction seems intimidating, I suggest an alternate activity might be any variation of tug-of-war. Gearing and traction are important in both cases, but easier to comprehend in the straight-line tugging. Weight limits are important in both cases, inertia being what it is.
    Bill Bourn
    Coach, FLL#91 F L eLements
    Mentor, FRC#2170 Titanium Tomahawks

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by GWhizNonKid View Post
    If you are only doing the sumo intra-murally, you can make your own rules before starting and still call it sumo or whatever else you think is a good name. I bet Push'emallabout would be a hit, for instance. To me, the biggest difference is the black/white or white/black playing field coloring. If you intend to go to a tournament, make sure you run your robots' development according to their rules.
    Thanks. I don't know of anyone else around here who holds competitions like that or we would check with them first. I envision an intramural contest after a couple of hands-on learning sessions where each kid has to build/program their own robot. Then maybe we will publish a set of rules and invite some other teams to bring their robots as well for a fun get-together after we have had some time to experiment with how things work.

    It appears that most use a 4-foot diameter ring painted black with a white line around the edge (though a couple have reversed colors in the sites I surveyed). Seems easy enough to set up...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rules for Lego Sumo

    Quote Originally Posted by BakingSodaVolcano View Post
    Thanks. I don't know of anyone else around here who holds competitions like that or we would check with them first. I envision an intramural contest after a couple of hands-on learning sessions where each kid has to build/program their own robot. Then maybe we will publish a set of rules and invite some other teams to bring their robots as well for a fun get-together after we have had some time to experiment with how things work.

    It appears that most use a 4-foot diameter ring painted black with a white line around the edge (though a couple have reversed colors in the sites I surveyed). Seems easy enough to set up...
    We don't have any other teams come in (although we've talked about it) so we just did simple. We took the legs off of one of the school's 4-foot round tables; we have a black ring around a white table because we had white contact paper available; some of our FRC mentors cut black construction paper & used packing tape to fasten it down.

    90 second time limit; if both robots are still upright & on the table by then it's a tie. Otherwise, obvious real-world sumo rules apply. The table is about 2 inches off the floor, so it makes for a safe drop-off. We don't have any weight rules, although last year our FRC kids implemented a max starting size of 8 1/2" by 11". A single appendage is allowed after start; this is modeled after last year's FRC rules. We'll keep these this year unless there's something compelling in this year's FRC game.

    The kids enjoy this immensely. We also do multiple robot matches; 7 at a time is about the max the table can support. The first year I messed up & built a robot that could easily push 4 or 5 robots around; last year I did better & didn't win. THAT was enjoyed by all.
    Mentor: FLL Trailridge Timberbots, FRC Team Titanium (1986)

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