Release of Documentation for cRIO

[2007FTC0200]

Would it be possible to release the documentation that is being given to the cRIO Beta test teams to the First community in general. We realize that some of it is in Draft form, but the non-Beta test teams would be able to look at the documentation and get a head start on the required learning curve for the new cRIO. It would also allow the non-Beta test teams to ask more intelligent questions of the Beta testers. So, as the documentation is sent to the Beta testers, could it be available on the web site or someplace else?

[rtfgnow]

Some of the material given to the beat teams have been released, like the video that was posted. I cannot give you any of what I have because that would break the NDA.

[dbartels]

I cannot give you any of what I have because that would break the NDA.

Could you elaborate on the "NDA"? I assume you mean a non-disclosure agreement of some kind, in which case i'm thinking, "Really?". I thought the role of the beta testers was to provide those teams not selected for beta testing with information concerning the process.

[Ken Streeter]

Could you elaborate on the "NDA"? I assume you mean a non-disclosure agreement of some kind, in which case i'm thinking, "Really?". I thought the role of the beta testers was to provide those teams not selected for beta testing with information concerning the process.

You're absolutely correct that the beta teams have a major role in providing information to all teams. The beta test disclosure agreement describes the constraints on when and where such disclosure can take place.

The beta test disclosure agreement has been published to all teams so that everybody can see it. The agreement is in the one document that has been published to all teams so far. See What FIRST has asked the Beta teams to do .

[Ken Streeter]

Would it be possible to release the documentation that is being given to the cRIO Beta test teams to the First community in general. We realize that some of it is in Draft form, but the non-Beta test teams would be able to look at the documentation and get a head start on the required learning curve for the new cRIO. It would also allow the non-Beta test teams to ask more intelligent questions of the Beta testers. So, as the documentation is sent to the Beta testers, could it be available on the web site or someplace else?

Yes, it is definitely possible, and part of the plan, to release the documentation being given to the cRIO beta test teams to the First community in general.

The developers here at FIRST, WPI, and NI are very eager to release documentation to all teams as soon as any given document is ready enough for draft distribution to all teams. Our plan is to release any given document to all teams as soon as at least three or four beta teams have been able to provide constructive feedback on the document and we have been able to make the appropriate fixes. At the current rate of progress, we should be able to have some documents "published" to all teams this week.

We understand that there is tremendous eagerness by many of the non-beta teams to be able to see all the documentation now. However, currently the beta teams have probably spent about 75% of their time on "dead-end" tasks due to missing, confusing, or plain wrong documentation. Rather than cause all teams to waste so much time in this fashion (and have to later unlearn incorrect things they have read from early erroneous documentation), we will release documents when at least the first pass of gross errors can be resolved. Even the initial "published" documents will have many holes, inadequate explanations, and blatant errors, but we definitely see the value in getting the documentation to all teams even while it is still in draft form -- it's just that much of it is still in such a rough draft form that it really is in everybody's best interest for it to not be released yet.

That said, the first bits of documentation should be published this week.

Thanks for your patience in bearing with us -- I know it's hard to wait!

[Roger]

However, currently the beta teams have probably spent about 75% of their time on "dead-end" tasks due to missing, confusing, or plain wrong documentation.

Sort of like one of Dave Lavery's hints, eh?

I for one can wait, Ken. I'd rather have correct info later than wrong info now. Thanks.

[dbarr4011]

Some of the material given to the beat teams have been released, like the video that was posted. I cannot give you any of what I have because that would break the NDA.

The original request from First for the Beta teams and the goals of the selected teams seem have changes.

FIRST BETA TEST PROGRAM GOALS

* Give as many teams as possible early hands-on exposure to the 2009 control system;
* Use beta team feedback to refine/develop supporting documentation and training materials;
* Test the features and functions of the new control system to uncover problems and provide solution suggestions;
* Develop a supporting network/knowledge database to ease the transition to the new system;
* Allow teams to become “Control System Experts” and serve as area leaders to mentor other teams;
* Share information to minimize strategic advantages; and
* Understand the difficulties and issues that teams may encounter with the new control system.

After reading the teams requirements and the Disclosure Agreement (lets call it the right name a Non Disclosure Agreement) that each of the Beta teams had to sign. First is limiting the Beta teams activities and restricting the flow of information to non Beta teams. The Beta teams should not be restricted in the information that present to the non-Beta teams. They should not have to worry that information they release will violation of the Non Disclosure Agreement they had to sign.

I would like see a posting of all documentation and base code (C and Labview) for all teams. Any documentation and information is better than nothing. I would like to see the remove of the restrictions for our Beta teams for releasing information. First selected 19 teams as Beta sites. Little information has been presented to the non-Beta teams. We have less than 100 days to get up to speed in the use and resources for the new 2009 controls.

[rtfgnow]

The original request from First for the Beta teams and the goals of the selected teams seem have changes.

FIRST BETA TEST PROGRAM GOALS

* Give as many teams as possible early hands-on exposure to the 2009 control system;
* Use beta team feedback to refine/develop supporting documentation and training materials;
* Test the features and functions of the new control system to uncover problems and provide solution suggestions;
* Develop a supporting network/knowledge database to ease the transition to the new system;
* Allow teams to become “Control System Experts” and serve as area leaders to mentor other teams;
* Share information to minimize strategic advantages; and
* Understand the difficulties and issues that teams may encounter with the new control system.

I see no where that it says we are suppose to give them the documentation given to us, I do see that we are suppose to post our own documents.

[Ken Streeter]

Yes, it is definitely possible, and part of the plan, to release the documentation being given to the cRIO beta test teams to the First community in general.

... At the current rate of progress, we should be able to have some documents "published" to all teams this week. ...

Even the initial "published" documents will have many holes, inadequate explanations, and blatant errors...

That said, the first bits of documentation should be published this week.

We didn't quite make it for document publication last week, but the first of the detailed documents on the Robotics Library is now available: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=10064

[Ray Gitchell]

Thank You for the C++ library documentation. I think it is the best source of solace to the non-Beta teams yet.

I think, however, it is time to trash the NDA, as it is becomming an obstical to the true meaning of Gracious Professionalism to the Beta teams.

Some non-beta teams are benefiting from their close proximity and "partnerships" with the beta teams to get "hands on" before the vast majority that are struggling for every scrap of information and hitting the "NDA WALL".

Please publish the preliminary documentation and development systems ASAP and add all the comments you wish regarding the fact that it is Preliminary and Unsupported until it is shipped with the kits.

We promise not to bombard you with questions, knowing we were not chosen as beta teams and you only have resources to support the chosen few.

Best Regards,

Ray