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  • #16
    Re: Color Sensor

    My take on clarifications: when in doubt, email Scott.
    fllrobotgame@usfirst.org

    He makes his decision on what deserves a post on the "Robot Games Rulings" page, based on the number of emails he receives. If he only gets a few, then he assumes it is clear to the masses and a posted clarification is not warranted.

    -Paul

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    • #17
      Re: Color Sensor

      New ruling:

      12 - LIGHT/COLOR SENSOR QUANTITIES
      By Rule 5, Bullet 1, the word "added" in Ruling 10 means yes, you are now allowed to use one color sensor in ADDITION to your two allowable light sensors, for a total of THREE optic sensors.

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      • #18
        Re: Color Sensor

        You are NOT allowed three (3) light sensors. I emailed Scott and got a reply this morning. Here is what he had to say:

        Immediately before the part you're pointing out, I did specifically give the number of each individual sensor allowed. It's 2L and 1C. The last part, about the bunch totaling 3, points out that there's addition going on as opposed to substitution.
        So - two light sensors maximum. If you do not have a color sensor you can not substitute it for an additional light sensor.

        Glenn

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        • #19
          Re: Color Sensor

          Now this has been changed:

          Originally posted by Scott
          Many teams misinterpreted the previous version of Ruling 12, and many teams have asked and argued hard for the 3rd allowable sensor to be a color sensor OR a light sensor, for a variety of good reasons. So starting now, the allowable total of three optic sensors can be any combination of color and light:

          That's 3C+0L, 2C+1L, 1C+2L, or 0C+3L. Body Forward only. No HiTechnic.
          Jayko543
          FLL member of 2 years
          http://www.legosinparadise.blogspot.com

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          • #20
            Re: Color Sensor

            Originally posted by Jayko543 View Post
            Now this has been changed:
            That's good news for us. We were one of the teams that would've been caught out by this: we have several light sensors, but no colour sensor.

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            • #21
              Re: Color Sensor

              Can a color sensor be used by NXT 1.0? We didn't see any blocks for it in the Lego Mindstorms NXT software.

              If it can, does anyone have any hints on how to treat it just like a light sensor?

              Thanks.

              ---Karen

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              • #22
                Re: Color Sensor

                I'm pretty sure that the color sensor requires at least version 2 of NXT-G and firmware to match. I'm also pretty sure that the color sensor holds no great advantage over the light sensor for this year's challenge. However, if you get the sense that your kids will be inspired to experiment with a color sensor AND your budget ($ and time) will allow it, then you should take the plunge. Please let us know the results of your experiments. I'd like to see a linefollower or rainbow navigator using the device.

                There is no "I" in "team" but there is and "I" in FIRST.
                Bill Bourn
                Coach, FLL#91 F L eLements
                Mentor, FRC#2170 Titanium Tomahawks

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                • #23
                  Re: Color Sensor

                  The color sensor requires either the NXT 2.0 retail (8547) software, or NXT-G 2.1 from LEGO Education. You can upgrade LEGO Edu's NXT-G 2.0 to 2.1 via a web download (which for some reason I can't find right now).

                  However, I would say that for FLL (at least the Body Forward robot game in particular), the color sensor has no real advantage over a light sensor, and in some important ways is worse. So don't buy one if you are hoping for a straightforward advantage. But go ahead if you want to experiment and try some new stuff!

                  The Color Sensor's color sensing feature is actually pretty weak (can only discriminate 6 colors and only if the conditions are right), but it can also be used in "light sensor" mode, in which case it is very similar to the standard light sensor, except harder to use accurately because calibration is not supported, and also less sensitive (no "raw" output). But once you figure it out, performance for line following and the like are very comparable between the two.

                  <beginner tidbit>
                  Having said that, for beginner and younger teams who have not yet come to understand the light sensor (confused by calibration, "<" vs. ">", mystery numbers, etc.), the color sensor may be a more intuitive way to do some basic color-seeking on the mat. Assuming the placement and light conditions are cooperative, you can simply say "wait for black" and the like, which is intuitive to the kids vs. the number-oriented approach of the light sensor.
                  </beginner tidbit>

                  <advanced tidbit>
                  There is a potential real performance advantage to the color sensor if the following situation would arise: If you were trying to find or follow, say, a red line against a white background, this is hard or impossible with the standard light sensor because it sees red just like white with its red LED. But with the color sensor in light sensor mode, you can choose red, green, or blue illumination for the LED. So to follow red against white, you could illuminate in blue, which would make the red look like black, leading to excellent contrast against white.

                  See the utility program at http://www.nxtprograms.com/NXT2/light_meter/index.html
                  if you want to experiment with this.

                  If your team looks around, they may find some potential uses of this technique in Body Forward... but it's their call if it's worth it.
                  </advanced tidbit>

                  Dave Parker
                  www.nxtprograms.com

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                  • #24
                    Re: Color Sensor

                    The NXT-G Education 2.0 -> 2.1 upgrade can be found here. Firmware 1.31 can also be found on this page:

                    http://www.lego.com/education/school...4&l4id=3_2_4_2

                    Jeff
                    Jeff Bartig
                    Wisconsin Region FLL Head Ref

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                    • #25
                      Re: Color Sensor

                      Originally posted by Jeff Bartig View Post
                      The NXT-G Education 2.0 -> 2.1 upgrade can be found here. Firmware 1.31 can also be found on this page:

                      http://www.lego.com/education/school...4&l4id=3_2_4_2

                      Jeff
                      At this site you can also find the color sensor block. It is spelled Colour, though... (if you want to do a search of the page)
                      Last edited by RoboDesigners; 10-27-2010, 10:21 PM.
                      RoboDesigners

                      VRC Team 2190

                      Visit my website! www.RoboDesigners.com

                      Twitter: @RoboDesigners

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