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M14 - Meteoroid Deflection

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  • #16
    Steve, I agree with you. The green route would score but the red wouldn't.

    With regards to R10, I'm sure we'd all agree that a team can make a spring-loaded catapult, position it by hand at the start of the green route, and have the robot release it.
    Now they just have to persuade the ball not to bounce when it hits the mat in the catcher.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by scherrsj View Post

      For that, I think that we have to take the westernmost extent of the printed line, and any hit/release location completely West of that would be fine.
      Thanks for your replies.

      So for purposes of meteoroid "hit/release", would you say that this red-hashed area is "west of the Free-Line"...

      M14-West.JPG

      ...or is it this entire green-hashed area?

      M14-West2.JPG


      P.S. Has anyone found a compass rose printed on this mat? I looked this weekend and didn't see one. The Field Ready picture in the Field Setup guide is pretty explicit in indicating directions, of course.
      No, I've looked a couple of times, and it seems to be missing.

      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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      • #18
        For me, west-of-the-line - is all the green hashed area. Recognizing the he ball must still pass "over" the printed line on the mat...so something odd would have to happen to its trajectory to actually wind up in the target.

        I suppose not likely, but for the sake of discussion. Was there consensus on "independent" meaning team-supplied "equipment" - or "any" other thing besides the item in question? For example, the team clearly can't deploy a wall/ramp/guide to assist the trajectory post-release. But can the ball bounce off the north wall or food production models and still be considered "independent"?

        The text that defines independent, says "your equipment". So for now, a crazy bank shot off the north wall of other field elements - works for me.

        David Stolz
        Texas - East (Houston)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dna1990 View Post
          For me, west-of-the-line - is all the green hashed area. Recognizing the he ball must still pass "over" the printed line on the mat...so something odd would have to happen to its trajectory to actually wind up in the target.

          I suppose not likely, but for the sake of discussion. Was there consensus on "independent" meaning team-supplied "equipment" - or "any" other thing besides the item in question? For example, the team clearly can't deploy a wall/ramp/guide to assist the trajectory post-release. But can the ball bounce off the north wall or food production models and still be considered "independent"?

          The text that defines independent, says "your equipment". So for now, a crazy bank shot off the north wall of other field elements - works for me.

          David Stolz
          Texas - East (Houston)
          Since "independent" specifically refers to "not in contact with any of your equipment", I think contact with the field walls or mission models would be allowed.
          FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by dna1990 View Post
            For me, west-of-the-line - is all the green hashed area. Recognizing the he ball must still pass "over" the printed line on the mat...so something odd would have to happen to its trajectory to actually wind up in the target.
            For "West of the line", I'm inclined toward the red-hashed area, considering that a successful mission has to also pass "over the Free-Line".
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
              So for purposes of meteoroid "hit/release", would you say that this red-hashed area is "west of the Free-Line"...

              ...or is it this entire green-hashed area?
              Definitely only the red-hashed area. I asked Scott about that and his opinion was quite clear - that the Free-Line ends as printed on the mat i.e. there is no virtual extension.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by alanggreen View Post

                Definitely only the red-hashed area. I asked Scott about that and his opinion was quite clear - that the Free-Line ends as printed on the mat i.e. there is no virtual extension.
                Thanks.
                FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by alanggreen View Post

                  Definitely only the red-hashed area. I asked Scott about that and his opinion was quite clear - that the Free-Line ends as printed on the mat i.e. there is no virtual extension.
                  Well the fact the ball must travel "over" the actual line, I think the "west-of" question is highly unlikely to be an issue.


                  But. But if a team does a legal bank shot:

                  Without an update or more explanation, I am GP5 rebelling on this one. I still say the green hash zone as drawn by Tom. "West of Chicago" is all points west, not just due west from the city center. Maybe if it said "directly west" or something more finite.

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                  • #24
                    I agree with dna1990. There's no text to say that the red shaded region is any better than the purple shaded region below, which is all west of the Free-Line and presumably a reasonable start position to send a Meteoroid over the Free-Line.

                    table-purple.jpg

                    And then I don't see any reason not to extend the purple region to include all of the green-hashed region. I agree that shots from southwest of the Habitation Hub could be very unlikely to make it over the Free-Line, but I'd allow it if it happened as an independent shot. If a team figured out a 3-cushion billiards shot that worked, I'd want to allow it.
                    Steve Scherr
                    Referee and Judge, Virginia-DC, Maryland, and Ohio
                    FLL Global Head Referee

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                    • #25
                      There is not a compass rose this year. We couldn't get Scott or Mike to say if it was intentional or a mistake...but the "excuse" is that we don't use a compass in space...
                      SC Head Referee & Referee @ World Festival

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MK Baldwin View Post
                        There is not a compass rose this year. We couldn't get Scott or Mike to say if it was intentional or a mistake...but the "excuse" is that we don't use a compass in space...
                        Sadly, the end result is that the rules still cite compass directions, but there are no references on the mat that define them.
                        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Compass references still defined in Field Setup Guide.

                          But agree, when missions have specific references to compass points - are hard on new refs/teams that typically don't study that part of the of the Guide but for one quick glance early in the season.

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