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  • INTO ORBIT forum topics

    All Forum topics posted during the INTO ORBIT season have been merged here. - Kevin O'Connor
    Last edited by Kevin O'Connor; 07-30-2019, 04:06 PM.

  • #2
    I suppose the "rail" makes it unlikely for the first Payload, but thinking more about the two subsequent Payloads that robots will load - what happens if the roll is "started", but the Payload falls off before reaching the first rack connection?

    There is not a specific requirement that it reach that far along the path (although is mentioned in the italicized section), and without model in hand to experiment with - hard to know how much I would judge the act of "clearly rolling" for a score.

    Thoughts? How likely? Is there a need to plan for it, or will it be obvious enough?

    Comment


    • #3
      This looks fun.

      But what about R16 Interference. Unlike a more traditional center-shared mission, these tend to have more a "yours" and "theirs" label...good for scoring, but what will it say about reaching across to manipulate the other side?

      In comparison to say the HD Water Pump, these models seem much more accessible (likely) to reach from the other side.

      In design, it looks most similar (to me) as the Rat mission in Food Factor. It was not all interference to grab "both rats".


      I may not have exhausted all scoring combinations, but it seems to me the only way to negatively affect the other team (by changing their Panel), is if both Panels were tilted to your side and you push them "both" back over. Essentially moving the +18 from them to you. But that seems unlikely for a team to expend energy to do when the Panels were already in a scoring condition with at least some points for your team. But if you happen to be at a match with top two seeds, a 36pt swing could be huge. Maybe one other example, if your Panel is still center and the other is pushed to you, by pushing it back, you reduce their points by 18, no change to your score.

      But. Is all of the above "negative impact" moot for M02? Since all scoring conditions are described and somewhat expect? The mission is about planning/negotiating/reacting to another team's approach. Meaning, this mission should only be held for R16 issues if the two robots actively block or interfere with one another or prevent the other robot from reaching/changing a Panel...?

      Comment


      • #4
        Probably a little early and this is a guarded but not protected forum. So hoping not to spoil something. Does the crossing equipment have to be in contact with craters? Does the crossing equipment have to be the reason the gate is down (flattened)? Text doesn't seem to require either. You read it different?

        Comment


        • #5
          The new phrase of "independent" as described in the fine print of M01...says only Your Equipment. Does that leave open the use of Mission Models to act as guides/helpers?

          If so , I think it is a nice hole that teams could develop some clever uses for Mission Models they may not otherwise utilize. But if that is the intention, I doubt most refs will see it that way and assume independent means all other "things".

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dna1990 View Post
            Does that leave open the use of Mission Models to act as guides/helpers?
            I think "Yes", since the mission models are not the team's equipment.

            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

            Comment


            • #7
              The look of this mission brings the topic of "Model damage" to mind. I hope LEGO is providing an extra-special set of beams for the Strike Pad mechanism.
              FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

              Comment


              • #8
                Has anyone seen this model in action personally? I am curious whether the mechanism is actually sensitive to both the "right distance and right speed" as mentioned in the non-binding "simply speaking" text.
                FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                Comment


                • #9
                  FIRST's video doesn't show how this mechanism works. Are the two Handle Assemblies independent, or are they joined so they both operate simultaneously?
                  I'm curious because this model is out in the remote middle part of the field, and if the mechanism jams it could be challenging to repair between matches.
                  FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There doesn't seem to be any rule about how the Gate is "flattened", or give any special status to the Craters.

                    It's interesting rule-writing that this mission can be accomplished by any of the team's "equipment".
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Everything after TECHNICALLY SPEAKING is used for scoring. As you note, in the italicized section it says
                      As long as the cart clearly rolls Independently past the First Track Connection, it's OK if it doesn't roll all the way east.
                      That means that if the Payload falls off before reaching the first track connection, that roll doesn't score.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can easily see a team having a strategy to push each of the solar panels toward the opposite table as they roam around doing other missions, so to score max points. As a referee, I certainly would like some guidance about whether that is allowed, as the rules aren't specific about the status of mission models that are shared.

                        Of course, we've got GP2 to say that if a detail isn't mentioned, then it doesn't matter.

                        R16's text is "not allowed to negatively affect the other team except as described in a Mission".

                        It's tricky: Moving a model into a position where it would score fewer points seems like a negative affect, and the text of M02 is silent about which team is allowed to move which panels. Does that mean it "doesn't matter", and that therefore teams can move both panels?

                        Seems like a clarification would be helpful, at least to the Referees. FIRST may not want to issue an Update about it since it could tip-off a strategic advantage.
                        Last edited by Tom Mosher; 08-01-2018, 03:49 PM. Reason: typo
                        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Seems pretty clear, staying on the rail is not a scoring requirement. Just that it has to start to roll and reach the first track connection. It's probably a Benefit of the Doubt situation if a rolling Payload falls off the rail in the vicinity of reaching the first track connection.

                          The italicized text is not a scoring requirement, since it isn't in green font.

                          That's a defect in how the rules are written this year - the status of the italicized text is not described in the rules.

                          There appears to be a conflict in the M01 scoring - the 2nd scoring bullet is in green (so it's a scoring requirement) and says that "it reaches the first track connection". But the italicized text (which has undefined status) says "as long as the cart ...rolls past the first track connection".

                          "reaches" and "rolls past" are two different concepts.
                          FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Note that using the tipping part of the Space Travel Ramp is also not a scoring requirement.

                            As I read the M01 text, a robot could place a Payload on the upper part of the inclined ramp, release it to start rolling, and meet the scoring requirements at the first track connection.
                            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just noticed that the exception "you may remove the ring from the field" applies only to the ring, not the meteor ball. I originally (and incorrectly) read that as the loose meteor ball could be removed if it didn't go into the Meteoroid Catcher.

                              Since the ring is located far from the South wall, the Refs may want to ask the team if they want the ring removed.
                              FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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