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Voting ?????

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  • Tom Mosher
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by timdavid View Post
    I must be feeling soft-hearted today, but the post by TeamLeader instilled the opposite reaction in me. If the voting aspect of the Global Innovation Award helps one team connect with another in a different part of the globe, and causes the kids to perform some altruistic behavior, perhaps it is worthwhile.

    I think the voting for the award is there solely to promote interest in the contest. That is not a bad thing. If the voting causes people to examine the ideas put out by various teams, than it has achieved a worthwhile purpose.

    I don't really worry that kids are wasting their time voting for another team's idea. I've been fortunate to have coached some very focused kids over the years, but I can still think of numerous times the kids have "wasted" time on far more frivolous behavior than voting for the Global Innovation Award.

    I'm still concerned that the contest is marred by robo-voting, but I have no problem with kids spending time voting for other teams' ideas.
    Voting for your favorite idea, that's a nice thing.

    Voting multiple times for the same idea, that just seems pointless. There's no additional learning happening, and allowing multiple votes just encourages the robo-voting that undermines the value of the whole enterprise.

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  • timdavid
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
    My personal opinion; I think that's a terrible waste of time for your team.
    I must be feeling soft-hearted today, but the post by TeamLeader instilled the opposite reaction in me. If the voting aspect of the Global Innovation Award helps one team connect with another in a different part of the globe, and causes the kids to perform some altruistic behavior, perhaps it is worthwhile.

    I think the voting for the award is there solely to promote interest in the contest. That is not a bad thing. If the voting causes people to examine the ideas put out by various teams, than it has achieved a worthwhile purpose.

    I don't really worry that kids are wasting their time voting for another team's idea. I've been fortunate to have coached some very focused kids over the years, but I can still think of numerous times the kids have "wasted" time on far more frivolous behavior than voting for the Global Innovation Award.

    I'm still concerned that the contest is marred by robo-voting, but I have no problem with kids spending time voting for other teams' ideas.
    Last edited by timdavid; 02-21-2013, 12:53 AM.

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  • Tom Mosher
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by TeamLeader View Post
    Possibly another way of looking at things...or just adding fuel to the fire, so my apologies if it turns out that way!

    My team is is in regular contact with an international Global Innovation team. After seeing the invention in question, my kids decided to support their friends.

    Team meetings now see any "non-busy" members at a computer voting for the other team.

    There's no benefit to my team, and the voting is rather time-consuming and dull for an otherwise hyperactive bunch - but they are very dedicated to the idea. Not only do they like the invention, they REALLY want to see their friends do well.

    I can't speak for anyone but my team, but there seems to be some GP value in our corner of the world.
    My personal opinion; I think that's a terrible waste of time for your team.

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  • TeamLeader
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Possibly another way of looking at things...or just adding fuel to the fire, so my apologies if it turns out that way!

    My team is is in regular contact with an international Global Innovation team. After seeing the invention in question, my kids decided to support their friends.

    Team meetings now see any "non-busy" members at a computer voting for the other team.

    There's no benefit to my team, and the voting is rather time-consuming and dull for an otherwise hyperactive bunch - but they are very dedicated to the idea. Not only do they like the invention, they REALLY want to see their friends do well.

    I can't speak for anyone but my team, but there seems to be some GP value in our corner of the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • Life is Good
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post
    I find the idea of voting for oneself and enlisting others to do the same to be distasteful. I know that modesty is not one of the core values, but neither is vanity and shameless self promotion.

    Like anything else in FLL the idea here is to learn and have fun. Winning is unimportant. Get your idea out there and see how people respond. Refrain from voting for yourself and you'll know that every vote you receive means somebody thinks your idea is great.

    Good point, my team met today and we actually did drawing and wrote an abstract to submit a provisional patent--it was a learning process for both the team and myself. Prior to this we spoke with a design engineer and got some great suggestions to improve our product. "What we discover is more important than what we win."
    But, it I am being honest, it would be NICE to be one of the winning solutions!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean Hystad
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by pixie View Post
    My team submitted this year but they gave up really quick on the idea that they could end up in the top 10 by votes. We are just a neighborhood group, there is no way for us to keep up with that kind of voting.
    I find the idea of voting for oneself and enlisting others to do the same to be distasteful. I know that modesty is not one of the core values, but neither is vanity and shameless self promotion.

    Like anything else in FLL the idea here is to learn and have fun. Winning is unimportant. Get your idea out there and see how people respond. Refrain from voting for yourself and you'll know that every vote you receive means somebody thinks your idea is great.

    Leave a comment:


  • pixie
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    My team submitted this year but they gave up really quick on the idea that they could end up in the top 10 by votes. We are just a neighborhood group, there is no way for us to keep up with that kind of voting.

    Leave a comment:


  • MCmom
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    That's from teams getting so many votes at once the refresh can't keep up. Wonder if FIRST will do anything about the obvious robo voting this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • timdavid
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by BremenBotz! View Post
    On top of everything else, the system was broke the first year and not allowing votes that should have counted.
    When I looked at the voting leaderboard today, it showed the same team in the 3rd through 7th positions in the voting, with each position having slightly different voting totals. Displays like that do not inspire confidence in the accuracy of the system...
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean Hystad
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by BremenBotz! View Post
    You do realize that his happens because FIRST dictates one award per team (unless you win Robot Performance and Champions Award). A team may very well win more than one category and only be recognized publicly with one award. "Fairness" can be viewed in a number of different ways.
    AFAIK the team that wins the robot performance award is elegable to win any other award. It is not part of the "spread the wealth" award pool.

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  • BremenBotz!
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    You do realize that his happens because FIRST dictates one award per team (unless you win Robot Performance and Champions Award). A team may very well win more than one category and only be recognized publicly with one award. "Fairness" can be viewed in a number of different ways.

    Originally posted by Life is Good View Post
    When trying to explain to them the "fairness" I reminded them of some of the tournaments we went to where the amazing top robot score received only one award: the Robot Performance Award. The high score didn't necessarily mean the "best", only that they could get points. Hopefully, the same will run true in this contest, the high numbers might not be the indication of the best invention!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Mosher
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by Life is Good View Post
    The top teams scores increase at a constant pace, 24/7......hard to explain it to my team that got so excited when we hit the 1,000 mark and then 2,000 mark. We have posted on facebook and asked everyone to forward the message. That along with sending emails to everyone we know. The boys are going to try and share the word at their school, but not sure what kind of support they will get.
    When trying to explain to them the "fairness" I reminded them of some of the tournaments we went to where the amazing top robot score received only one award: the Robot Performance Award. The high score didn't necessarily mean the "best", only that they could get points. Hopefully, the same will run true in this contest, the high numbers might not be the indication of the best invention!
    "Vote as many times as you like" is a strange concept in this regard.

    Leave a comment:


  • Life is Good
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    The top teams scores increase at a constant pace, 24/7......hard to explain it to my team that got so excited when we hit the 1,000 mark and then 2,000 mark. We have posted on facebook and asked everyone to forward the message. That along with sending emails to everyone we know. The boys are going to try and share the word at their school, but not sure what kind of support they will get.
    When trying to explain to them the "fairness" I reminded them of some of the tournaments we went to where the amazing top robot score received only one award: the Robot Performance Award. The high score didn't necessarily mean the "best", only that they could get points. Hopefully, the same will run true in this contest, the high numbers might not be the indication of the best invention!

    Leave a comment:


  • BremenBotz!
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    We opted not to submit anything this year. Our town only has 5000 people total. If they were ALL to vote once everyday, we still could not keep up. Not worth the effort and frustration. On top of everything else, the system was broke the first year and not allowing votes that should have counted.

    Our kids have watched some really simple existing solutions receive accolades, while truly innovative solutions are ignored. There are other, less frustrating ways to generate capital.

    Leave a comment:


  • timdavid
    replied
    Re: Voting ?????

    Originally posted by Life is Good View Post
    FLL makes the statement to remember GP when voting, but how many votes do they consider to be within the "GP range" per person?
    In the FAQ, it states:

    Voting is unlimited. You may vote for as many inventions as you would like, and vote as many times as you like each day.
    However, it also states:

    automated voting bots are NOT allowed
    I picked a team from my state with a low number of votes and an interesting idea, and voted for them 20 times in about two minutes. For someone who is really dedicated, it certainly seems possible that they could manually vote more than 500 times in a hour. However, doing that for 24 hours straight, or finding another 23 people to do that every day, seems much more unlikely. Perhaps teams are convincing 500 people to vote 20 times each per day. It would be a feasible undertaking to coordinate at a school that sponsors a team.

    At the time I write this, the top team has about 87,000 votes. It is interesting that of the 342 submissions, only about 30 of the teams have more than 20,000 votes currently. Team number 100 only has about 4000 votes. Almost half the teams have fewer than 1000 votes. So only a small percentage of the teams have figured out how to "get out the vote" and place themselves in contention for the 10 semi-finalist spots that go to the highest vote-getters.

    Overall, I agree with the sentiment that the award would be better served by removing the voting aspect.
    Last edited by timdavid; 02-18-2013, 08:09 AM.

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