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  • sucessful mimicry wall builds?

    Just did our qualifying tournament -- our "forklift design" successfully climbed the mimicry wall with the geko attached (basically a forklift with a downward facing hook on top rather than parallel tongs)-- and our robot came in second!!.
    We went through myriad ideas on how to climb the wall, I'm curious to see other successful designs other teams used!!

  • #2
    Re: sucessful mimicry wall builds?

    A forklift like device using rack and pinion gearing was the most common, but I also saw string wrapped around a spindle pulling on a hook. My favorite was a robot that used inertia to flip over on it's rear, making the robot taller and moving the center of mass forward. It rolled forward using the same drive wheels used during normal motion, hooked the wall with a simple hook connected to the front attachment motor that was used for all the other missions, and pulled itself up. Very elegant and very surprising.

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    • #3
      Re: sucessful mimicry wall builds?

      Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post
      A forklift like device using rack and pinion gearing was the most common, but I also saw string wrapped around a spindle pulling on a hook. My favorite was a robot that used inertia to flip over on it's rear, making the robot taller and moving the center of mass forward. It rolled forward using the same drive wheels used during normal motion, hooked the wall with a simple hook connected to the front attachment motor that was used for all the other missions, and pulled itself up. Very elegant and very surprising.
      very interesting...
      We used a worm gear/medium motor with a forklift... ironically the forlift worked flawlessly, but navigating to the wall proved to be more problematic than we thought -- our wall climb worked once out of three matches, but those points were enough to give us a second place finish in the robot competition (unfortunately that wasn't enough to progress to the next round :-( )

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      • #4
        Re: sucessful mimicry wall builds?

        We also used a rack and pinion system. Boys learned a LOT about it! Unfortunately, they experienced Gyro creep EVERY time they attempted this during competition, so they weren't able to get credit for it.

        https://youtu.be/BJxnUY5BsTE
        Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
        Legolicious - 5th year girls team
        Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

        2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

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        • #5
          I think that the simple solutions often work better and are also easier. The trick though is finding out how to make the challenge easier. The best way to hang from the mimicry wall in my opinion is to only use the drive motors and a junk piece our team reffers to as a wheel chair. The robot sits on this chair and the robot wheels drive the chair wheels like gears. The robot drives backwards which moves the chair forward until it hits the wall. When the robot drives forward because nothing suports the robot in front it drives off of the chair pushing it out from underneath it and the robot lands on hooks fully supported by the wall.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by roobotmark View Post
            ...The best way to hang from the mimicry wall ....
            Them's fighting words!!!

            Most years I am quite pleased with the variety of solutions I see for solving the challenges of the robot game. I didn't see a mimicry wall solution that used an auxiliary robot base, but I did see solutions other than the obvious grasp and pull using forklift/gear reduction/pulley. As to which was best, that is impossible to say in isolation. The mimicry solution that works best with your game solution will not be the best choice for mine.

            For example, a forklift mechanism dedicated to climbing the mimicry wall is a bad solution. However, if that same forklift is used in several other missions, and you can combine a bunch of missions in the NE corner, culminating with climbing the mimicry wall, it becomes a good solution. Having an auxiliary base that slides out from under the robot sounds really neat, but if that forces you to make a separate trip just for the mimicry wall it isn't very efficient. The quality of a mission solution is part based on effectiveness, part on WOW, and part on efficiency. The last is the hardest to achieve because it requires you solve the entire game as a single entity..

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            • #7
              Just curious -- my team did a simple pulley using lego string--only time it didn't work was due to human error (a few times they ran out of time and once in technical judging the motor wasn't active due to cord problem. Team combined run placing bee, pushing pig and one manure into place.....so not a run just for wall. Wondering if anyone saw any other robots using pulley and sting.....we saw over 200 robots throughout season and didn't see any others.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jedi View Post
                Wondering if anyone saw any other robots using pulley and sting..
                Maybe half a dozen times during the season. At one tournament three of the teams I judged (out of 5 that attempting the mimicry wall) used string and a spool. Could be that those teams were somehow related.
                Last edited by Dean Hystad; 08-08-2017, 11:48 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedi View Post
                  Wondering if anyone saw any other robots using pulley and sting.....we saw over 200 robots throughout season and didn't see any others.
                  Not a lot of teams even tried it. Among those, probably half used a string and pulley, the others used some variation on a worm gear/forklift mechanism.
                  FIRST Tech Challenge Judge: 2010, Referee: 2017
                  FIRST LEGO League Mentor, Instructor, and/or Referee/Head Referee since 2011
                  FIRST Robotics Competition judge (Chairman's Award): 2014
                  Dean says I'm an "Oompa Loompa of Science"

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                  • #10
                    The gecko wall was really cool task that had a ton of possible solutions. I was a little surprised by the near absence of pneumatic powered climbers, but teams found plenty of other ways to get their robots in the air. My personal favorite solution was when a team used the fact that lego treads can't bend backwards to extend and latch onto the wall, and then pulled their robot up by winding the treads in.

                    The gecko wall was similar to the balance board from Senior Solutions, it was within the capabilities (but still a hard challenge) of many teams but it could be a real enigma for teams with large robots and complicated strategies.
                    FLL Team Automaticus Rex , Student Lead 2011-14, Mentor 2015-17
                    2013 World Festival 2nd place Strategy and Innovation Award, 2014 North American Championship 1st place Strategy and Innovation Award, 2016 World Festival Attendees
                    Referee 2014- , 2016 Colorado State Championship Co-Head Referee

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
                      I was a little surprised by the near absence of pneumatic powered climbers.
                      It seems to me that in recent years fewer teams are using the pneumatic system. I'm not sure if it's due to cost, the ability to power four motors with the EV3 or newer teams just not being familiar with or even aware of the pneumatics.
                      --
                      Fort Worth Robotics - North Texas Region Team #455
                      Technical coach, baker of the cookies, keeper of the time, transporter of the travel field walls, finder of the spare parts, maker of the pop culture references that only the other tall people understand.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jedi View Post
                        Just curious -- my team did a simple pulley using lego string--only time it didn't work was due to human error (a few times they ran out of time and once in technical judging the motor wasn't active due to cord problem. Team combined run placing bee, pushing pig and one manure into place.....so not a run just for wall. Wondering if anyone saw any other robots using pulley and sting.....we saw over 200 robots throughout season and didn't see any others.
                        My team also used a pulley-and-string solution with a mechanical advantage of 4. It was one of our more reliable missions. We only saw one other team that used string to climb the wall.

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                        • #13
                          I think in four years of head refereeing a couple of hundred matches a year, I've seen about two teams that used pneumatics. They're not sold very much any more in the model kits, and they aren't in the EV3 educational kits at all (as far as I recall). So they just don't get much exposure.
                          FIRST Tech Challenge Judge: 2010, Referee: 2017
                          FIRST LEGO League Mentor, Instructor, and/or Referee/Head Referee since 2011
                          FIRST Robotics Competition judge (Chairman's Award): 2014
                          Dean says I'm an "Oompa Loompa of Science"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post

                            Them's fighting words!!!

                            Most years I am quite pleased with the variety of solutions I see for solving the challenges of the robot game. I didn't see a mimicry wall solution that used an auxiliary robot base, but I did see solutions other than the obvious grasp and pull using forklift/gear reduction/pulley. As to which was best, that is impossible to say in isolation. The mimicry solution that works best with your game solution will not be the best choice for mine.

                            For example, a forklift mechanism dedicated to climbing the mimicry wall is a bad solution. However, if that same forklift is used in several other missions, and you can combine a bunch of missions in the NE corner, culminating with climbing the mimicry wall, it becomes a good solution. Having an auxiliary base that slides out from under the robot sounds really neat, but if that forces you to make a separate trip just for the mimicry wall it isn't very efficient. The quality of a mission solution is part based on effectiveness, part on WOW, and part on efficiency. The last is the hardest to achieve because it requires you solve the entire game as a single entity..
                            I am sorry if I offended you. The auxiliary base solution only reuses the drive motors making it highly efficient and very simple to implement. Best is my opinion based on the factors above.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by roobotmark View Post

                              I am sorry if I offended you. The auxiliary base solution only reuses the drive motors making it highly efficient and very simple to implement. Best is my opinion based on the factors above.
                              I need to get over my dislike of emoji's or emoticons. No offense taken. However, if I've learned anything from all the FLL teams I've had the pleasure to judge and work with it is that there is no "best way". It makes judging quite difficult at times because what could be viewed as a weakness may be a strength depending upon how it works with the solution. For example, generally a robot that bends easily can cause lots of control problems, but I remember being amazed at how easily one team's robot was able to climb over all the obstacles in "Natures Fury" in part because the robot was designed to flex and keep both drive motors generating motive power. A couple times each season a team comes in and turns my understanding of FLL upside down.

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