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  • M15 Lander Touch Down

    Hi,
    We are finding the Lander as very fragile and NEVER lands intact. We are planning to catch in the air bring it back to base. Is this OK? Or we have to pick it up from the floor and bring it home?

  • #2
    You can catch it.

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    • #3
      Read thru this mission again. Read thru the whole challenge again, at least skim. Realizing there may be more context, but using just what you posted so far - you have made several assumptions as to what is required, what is the challenge, and what to expect in terms of possible solutions or scoring objectives.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by nedcook View Post
        You can catch it.
        I have asked some other team coaches they have said that the lander should touch the surface .Is it true

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Eureka View Post

          I have asked some other team coaches they have said that the lander should touch the surface .Is it true
          There are three different ways to score with the Lander. They are clearly outlined in the Challenge Guide. I encourage you to read that. It's quite clear. Congratulations in advance if you score. It's one of the more difficult missions on the board this year, in my opinion.

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          • #6
            We have found the 20 and 22 point version of this mission to be impossible. They have tried at least 15 different solutions, but the two pieces seem to come apart with basically every catcher we've designed. I suspect that people will either do the 16 pt version and bring it back to base, or bring it back to the base, reassemble it, and then send the robot back out to deploy it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ssm View Post
              We have found the 20 and 22 point version of this mission to be impossible. They have tried at least 15 different solutions, but the two pieces seem to come apart with basically every catcher we've designed. I suspect that people will either do the 16 pt version and bring it back to base, or bring it back to the base, reassemble it, and then send the robot back out to deploy it.
              Be very, very careful with the term "impossible" in First Lego League.
              FLL alumni, mentor, referee, judge

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post

                Be very, very careful with the term "impossible" in First Lego League.
                Ha true!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ssm View Post

                  Ha true!
                  I'm pretty sure I'm quoting Dean!
                  FLL alumni, mentor, referee, judge

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ssm View Post
                    We have found the 20 and 22 point version of this mission to be impossible. They have tried at least 15 different solutions, but the two pieces seem to come apart with basically every catcher we've designed. I suspect that people will either do the 16 pt version and bring it back to base, or bring it back to the base, reassemble it, and then send the robot back out to deploy it.
                    As per the rule the lander should land and then it should be bought to base. Is it true

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                    • #11
                      Please review the Challenge Guide, I think you are getting incorrect information. The Challenge Guide answers all the questions you have posted.
                      You mention that "per the rule" the lander should land. The Rules section does not state the requirements for the Mission, it is the Mission section of the Robot Game in the Challenge Guide that lists the Missions and within each Mission, the scoring requirements are stated with specificity based on the end condition or the method of solving the Mission. The Rules state the way you are limited or open to solving the Missions. Ok, hyper technical, yes.

                      All of your questions are answered here:
                      https://www.firstinspires.org/resour...-and-resources

                      Please have the team review the Updates also.

                      One of the reasons you are getting this same response and not a direct answer to the question is that each variation of your question leads to another question that can be answered by the Challenge Guide. Anything said on here is not an answer, only the Challenge Guide is the answer.

                      As to my opinion (not worth anything at competition) M15 does not discuss any landing (touching the mat) requirement for a lander returned to base but, again, please see the Challenge Guide. I have been a ref and head ref at several events this season and have seen many robots over the limit, teams that think the Base is the white area outside the black Base line, think the Base is square (really stunned on this), teams that think they get points for missions when they seem to have created their own solution to the missions or have relied upon mis-information. The list is stunning and slightly depressing, extracting the red brick with a robot arm and no Regolith, pushing the ball all the way to the catcher, pushing vehicles down the ramp, pushing the food production all the way in, lifting the strength exercise so only one hole shows, moving the satellites a few inches out of Base. I think I could give 2-3 ways teams have "solved" each mission incorrectly that could have been avoided if they reviewed the Challenge Guide.

                      The really unfortunate part is that the team created an attachment, programmed the robot and made it succeed at "solving" the mission incorrectly. They clearly could have solved the mission per the Challenge Guide if they reviewed the requirements. So, there is a long winded answer to your question and an encouragement to have your team review each mission and the requirements found in the Challenge Guide. Good Luck and hope your team has fun.

                      FLL coach Trash Trek on, State 4x, World 2x, ref, judge advisor.

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                      • #12
                        As to the "impossible", that's something that the team just proves incorrect each season. Both my team and others have landed it.
                        Many of these are posted on Youtube. I hope your team proves the "impossible" incorrect also. Good Luck.
                        FLL coach Trash Trek on, State 4x, World 2x, ref, judge advisor.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DJR View Post
                          As to the "impossible", that's something that the team just proves incorrect each season. Both my team and others have landed it.
                          Many of these are posted on Youtube. I hope your team proves the "impossible" incorrect also. Good Luck.
                          Agreed that it's not impossible! I know I've tried a few different concepts, and while I could definitely score the 16 points, I haven't come up with a successful solution that would score the 22 points (besides catching it, hauling it back to base, assembling the lander, and shoving it back out to the yellow planet). And I haven't seen a robot successfully earning the 22 points on youtube either. All the solutions I saw on youtube were either 16-point approaches or were very rudimentary, conceptual attempts rather than programmed robots.

                          And 100% agreed that the challenge guide answers ksam11's question. And a reminder:

                          GP2 - INTERPRETATION
                          If a detail isn
                          Last edited by [email protected]; 12-06-2018, 04:21 PM.

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                          • #14
                            If there was a big reward for capturing the lander intact you would see more interest. As is you get 6 points for capturing the lander intact and placing it in a fairly small target area. For fun I have captured the lander and lowered it to the target under robot control, but I had to waste a motor on a very specialized attachment that is hard to use for another objective and the mission still only works slightly better than half the time. Instead I can have a passive attachment that catches the lander when my robot bumps into the model and I can score both meteors, all three satellites and food production (with water) with my attachment motors. Spending any time catching the lander intact is bad strategy unless you've scored every other point on the board.
                            Last edited by Dean Hystad; 12-07-2018, 08:40 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post
                              If there was a big reward for capturing the lander intact you would see more interest. As is you get 6 points for capturing the lander intact and placing it in a fairly small target area. For fun I have captured the lander and lowered it to the target under robot control, but I had to waste a motor on a very specialized attachment that is hard to use for another objective and the mission still only works slightly better than half the time. Instead I can have a passive attachment that catches the lander when my robot bumps into the model and I can score both meteors, all three satellites and food production (with water) with by attachment motors. Spending any time catching the lander intact is bad strategy unless you've scored every other point on the board.
                              100% agreed. 16 points isn't all that much for a mission that involves heading out to the far end of the board and hauling something all the way back to base. Especially when there are 10 other missions closer to base and easier. And for a very challenging mission to drop it in the circle, the extra 6 points just isn't worth the effort (except, as you mentioned, a fun attempt for non-tournament enjoyment!).

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