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Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

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  • Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

    This is my collection of open questions that confuse me about the points and/or missions. I am sure I will have many more.

    - the repair to the contamination Stations. My sons made the fixes and I double checked them. And still the stations lift up on the mat. What are others seeing?

    - The Thermometer has an issue. In the building instructions is shows the red line all the way up and the lever to the left. In the mission document, it shows the lever to the right with all red showing. Which is it?

    - With the yellow truck, it talks about produce but only that the truck needs to be in base. If the veggies fall out on the way to base I assume the truck still scores.

    - It looks like the rats are somewhat competitive. If your team gets both rats you score 30 points, get one and score 15. This is too bad, I would have done this more collaboratively. Where each team needed to remove the other teams rat so they could score points by lowering that bridge thing.

    - Distance Travel. So - it sounds like we need to finish the match by finishing up at touching the east wall. Seems like a confusing way to say that.

    - Hand Wash / Bacterial - It says this: "While between base and the sink, each was the only one in motion". As I read this - we can only bring each bacterium to the sink "one at a time". This would take up to 48 trips? Am I reading that wrong?

    - also - the bacterium piece only says 3 points, not 3 points "each". Is it really each?

    - Is there a touch penalty piece? Is that the yellow bacterium? I did not see this but I assume this to be true.

    I'll send an email to Scott on these to see if he can clarify.

  • #2
    Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

    Send your questions to Scott.

    I think the produce in the truck can count for points if you get it to the table.

    Touch penalty is the yellow bacteria in the base. You get 6*12 points free for not moving your robot. Read the Good Bacteria mission closer.

    It will be 3pts per bacteria, since it will be impossible to deliver all of them one at a time. It would take 48 trips. at 3 seconds per trip that would leave you with 6 seconds left over to do everything else. There is no "hard" high score this year.

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    • #3
      Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

      Are the ears of corn in the harvester considered to be sweet corn for people, or cow corn for animals?

      If they are ears of sweet corn, then they should be additional grocery units, and we could leave 1 ear in the base or on the mat to satisfy the corn harvest mission, and put the rest on the table for the groceries mission.
      Last edited by PALIONE; 09-02-2011, 11:40 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

        Here are some thoughts after reading and re-reading (and re-reading) the mission information. Of course, these are just my thoughts and I will be interested if there are any official responses made.

        About the corn and the produce in the truck:
        At the top of page ten, it states: "Food (Groceries) – There are twelve units of groceries: Ten in Base, and two specific ones in the yellow truck." I believe this rules out the corn as an additional grocery unit, and counts the two boxes of produce as two grocery units to be put on the dining table.

        And speaking of the truck:
        I agree that just the truck is needed in base for the points.

        Rats:
        I agree that it looks competitive, and that you can get 30 points while the team at the other table gets 0.

        fwiw....

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        • #5
          Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

          Originally posted by gamul1 View Post
          - the repair to the contamination Stations. My sons made the fixes and I double checked them. And still the stations lift up on the mat. What are others seeing?
          Ours lift up as well. I put a 1/2-width Dual-Lock section underneath the front extension on one of them as an experiment; it works well. I'll wait to see for updates before doing that on any of the others; maybe the intent is to have the mat uneven in that area.

          Originally posted by gamul1 View Post
          - The Thermometer has an issue. In the building instructions is shows the red line all the way up and the lever to the left. In the mission document, it shows the lever to the right with all red showing. Which is it?
          As someone else said, ask Scott. HOWEVER....read rule 28. You'll notice that it says nothing about the build instructions. Based on that I reversed the lever on our thermometers, but will wait for clarifications. I can't imagine I'm the only one that's emailed Scott about this one.
          Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
          KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at kcfllref@gmail.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

            Originally posted by someonewhobikes View Post
            I put a 1/2-width Dual-Lock section underneath the front extension on one of them as an experiment; it works well. I'll wait to see for updates before doing that on any of the others; maybe the intent is to have the mat uneven in that area.
            You are supposed to put extra dual-lock on the table:
            Step 6 – Place Dual Lock as the mat shows, but also in front of those places, as shown.
            The question is whether this should be a full square or a half. If a full square, there's a uncovered sticky spot. There's also a sticky spot at the back end, where the beam was removed and moved forward.

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            • #7
              Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

              Originally posted by PALIONE View Post
              Are the ears of corn in the harvester considered to be sweet corn for people, or cow corn for animals?
              Rule 3, bullet 2--they are pieces of LEGO labelled "corn". ;-)

              Just to be complete, the Field Setup is clear about the groceries
              Food (Groceries)  There are twelve units of groceries: Ten in Base, and two specific ones in the yellow truck
              From the pictures of East Side and West Side, we see what they are:
              The ten in base are the ones assembled as "Groceries and Pastries".
              The two in the truck are the two cases of produce.
              Steve Scherr
              Referee and Judge, Virginia-DC, Maryland, and Ohio
              FLL Global Head Referee

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              • #8
                Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
                You are supposed to put extra dual-lock on the table:
                DOH! That's what I get for working off a b&w printout. I took step 6 to mean the lock in front of the back "original Dual-Lock location's X", but now that you point that out I see the bit in front. The middle picture is pretty fuzzy but it looks to me like a full-width section.

                I put a 1/2-width under the back already, so the front's also getting a 1/2-width. I can always add another 1/2 if Scott tells us that the sticky bit's important; until then we've got enough dust-collection devices on the table.

                Thanks for the clarification.
                Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
                KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at kcfllref@gmail.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                  Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
                  You are supposed to put extra dual-lock on the table:

                  The question is whether this should be a full square or a half. If a full square, there's a uncovered sticky spot. There's also a sticky spot at the back end, where the beam was removed and moved forward.
                  The team followed this and used a full square - which is what it looks like to me in the instructions. And still the mat lifts up.

                  Are you implying your table mat is not lifting now? If so - what did you do?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                    I haven't dual-locked down the models until I can get the whole/half square clarified.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                      Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
                      I haven't dual-locked down the models until I can get the whole/half square clarified.
                      Doesn't the fuzzy picture make things absolutely clear? I agree that the super fuzzy picture looks like a 1/2 piece. I tried a 1/4 piece and it does not stay stuck down (alternating between being stuck to the model or mat). My mat still lifts a little.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                        Since I don't have a team and am using a tournament set, it's not a priority for me until November. So I can wait for an official clarification.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                          I'm sorry - I just looked again and it seems very clear to me. In the mission set up the middle picture in the bottom row of the modification instructions seems to clearly show 6 full pads of dual lock, 3 per side. Which is one new full piece per side.

                          What image looks like 1/2 piece to you guys?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                            OK - Problem with leaning contamination stations is solved. The image in the mission doc was not very clear to me but Scott sent me an image that was clearer and clued me in on what I was missing.

                            There are not 6 dual lock spots but 8. The front dual locks were not visible to my team and we did not add those, just the extra/new rear ones. With all 8 installed there is no leaning at all. We used full dual lock pads, not a half pad as the image Scott sent me looked pretty clear on that.

                            If you're still leaning I'll bet this is what your team is missing too.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Things that appear to be confusing to me about the points/missions

                              Originally posted by gamul1 View Post
                              There are not 6 dual lock spots but 8. The front dual locks were not visible to my team and we did not add those, just the extra/new rear ones. With all 8 installed there is no leaning at all. We used full dual lock pads, not a half pad as the image Scott sent me looked pretty clear on that.
                              Yes, 8 full pads as in the lower center picture for mission models setup. The problem is, the extra pads go on the front of the dispensers - toward the dispenser container and in the direction that the length-9 beam was adjusted in Step 4 of the setup.

                              As far as leaning goes, mine lean when they are full and they don't lean when they are empty.

                              For practice tables, I would recommend against leaving them full and leaning for long periods of time as this could permanently stretch/warp the mat in a way that will exist in a competition setting with new mats. (I just put a small weight on each when not in use to prevent leaning & stretching and remove the weights for trial runs.)
                              Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.
                              - Albert Einstein

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