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  • Mission point scoring

    Maybe its just me but all this 3, 9, 7 points per mission seems like alot of work to add up at a tournament or even keep track of at meetings.

    I love that they removed to 400 point cap and I even love it more that most missions have 2 ways of scoring (one on the easy side and one harder) but I just think it would be little easier for everyone if the points was like 5,10,15..

    What do you think?
    X.K.A.R.'s Teams
    Xenia Kids And Robots
    www.xkar.org

    Team 633 Robotatoes
    Team 634 Bro-ritos
    Team 6348 uhhh do you want fries with that

  • #2
    I think they tried to enhance the experience

    for the teams on all ends of the competitive spectrum.

    For the very top teams that go to the world championships, there have always been a few that can regularly score 400 points with time left over. They run into the problem of whether the robot game 'champion' should be determined by which something like which team makes a small error on one of their runs, or whether one team finished with 42 seconds remaining and the other has only 35 seconds to spare. Neither of those options is very appealing from a competitive standpoint. Now there will the opportunity to add to you score 3 points at a time if you can finish all the other tasks.

    At the other end of the competitive spectrum (and probably more important, because it effects many more kids), there are always teams in the regional competition that struggle to get anything to work. They may have had limited meeting time prior to the competition or they may have inexperienced coaches, and when things start to go wrong, they end up with a score of 0 or even a negative score, with touch penalties. It can be devasting to go to one of these competitions and finish with a negative score, with the net effect that the kids go away thinking that technology is too hard for them - the opposite of what FLL is trying to achieve. I think this year almost everbody will be able to score a few points from releasing contamination levers or knocking polution balls loose, and it will be very hard to acumulate 12 touch penalties, so every team will be able to point to a few things they've accomplishmed.

    In the middle, I've been to regional competitions where there are 4 teams tied at 170, so maybe the smaller scoring increments will make things more interesting for teams in the middle too.

    It certainly is going to be a lot of work for the judges to keep track of all the 2's, 3's and 7's, but I'm glad they are working to try to enhance the competitive experience for everyone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mission point scoring

      Originally posted by Jsnlong View Post
      Maybe its just me but all this 3, 9, 7 points per mission seems like alot of work to add up at a tournament
      Really? Is it harder for a computer to add 7 to a total than it is to add 5 or 10?

      or even keep track of at meetings.
      That's a potential issue. Another is that it makes your strategizing harder. I guess that's part of the challenge this year. FLL'ers are smart; they'll handle it.


      Originally posted by Silent_Lion View Post
      ... they end up with a score of 0 or even a negative score, with touch penalties.
      It is impossible to get a negative score. The touch penalty pieces give you a starting score of 72 before you even turn the robot on. If you would touch the robot 12 times without scoring any missions, you would be down to zero.
      Last edited by Gary Voshol; 09-05-2011, 02:23 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I think they tried to enhance the experience

        Originally posted by Silent_Lion View Post
        It certainly is going to be a lot of work for the judges to keep track of all the 2's, 3's and 7's, but I'm glad they are working to try to enhance the competitive experience for everyone.
        I'm not worried about tracking all of the little points scores -- it'll be relatively easy for we referees to mark the scoring sheets. I'm more worried about teams mistakenly running off with some number of that plethora of bacteria & viruses, and having to count them to make sure. Fortunately, the Western Missouri/Kansas region uses FRC volunteers (thanks, Teams Titanium & Up Next last year) for field setup and they're the ones that have to do all of that counting. <evil grin>
        Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
        KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mission point scoring

          @Gary Voshol not all places use computers to add scores at the table.. If your kids all pumped up and going over the score with the ref it would be easier for both parties to use numbers that 9 year olds can add quickly in their head. In ohio the refs added the score with the kid standing there on paper and the kids sign off on in it before it goes to the score keeper to post in the sytem. This count is done in just a few mintues.

          Im sure if its wrong it can be fixed. I was just pointing out why they felt the need to use such odd scoring numbers this year

          I also thought the same thing about how many loose/small peices there are this year. I mean how many times did you have to track down a mini figure last year lol..
          X.K.A.R.'s Teams
          Xenia Kids And Robots
          www.xkar.org

          Team 633 Robotatoes
          Team 634 Bro-ritos
          Team 6348 uhhh do you want fries with that

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mission point scoring

            Originally posted by Jsnlong View Post
            ...
            I also thought the same thing about how many loose/small peices there are this year. I mean how many times did you have to track down a mini figure last year lol..
            I managed the fourteen practice tables at this year's World festival. If there were three of them with a complete set of "portables" at the end of the week, I'd be surprised. I'm not sure I'm even going to volunteer for next year.
            Bill Bourn
            Coach, FLL#91 F L eLements
            Mentor, FRC#2170 Titanium Tomahawks

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mission point scoring

              Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
              It is impossible to get a negative score. The touch penalty pieces give you a starting score of 72 before you even turn the robot on. If you would touch the robot 12 times without scoring any missions, you would be down to zero.
              Yes, it is impossible to end up with a negative score under this year's rules. The rules this year are designed to keep team scores safely in the positive range - and I think that is a good thing. In some years past, I think it has been possible to get negative scores with enough touch penalties. I know I have seen negative scores posted at our regional/state tournaments, and I'm glad that isn't a possibility with this year's scoring system.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mission point scoring

                Originally posted by Silent_Lion View Post
                Yes, it is impossible to end up with a negative score under this year's rules. The rules this year are designed to keep team scores safely in the positive range - and I think that is a good thing. In some years past, I think it has been possible to get negative scores with enough touch penalties. I know I have seen negative scores posted at our regional/state tournaments, and I'm glad that isn't a possibility with this year's scoring system.
                No, it was not possible to get a negative score. Touch penalties were recorded by removing a scoring element from the playing field. The worst that could happen is that all the touch penalty elements are removed and you get zero points for them. I know for sure that this has been the practice for the past 7 years I have coached. Beyond that my memory is a little fuzzy. If you saw a negative score that meant the referees didn't know the rules.
                Last edited by Dean Hystad; 09-05-2011, 11:51 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mission point scoring

                  This seems to be the most relevant thread for my question:

                  What are the total number of points on the board? I know its virtually impossible to score all the points - I'm just curious about the total on the board.

                  I'm asking because I have read a couple times on this board somewhere the total (supposed to be confirmed by Scott) is around 452 or something. And yet, when I go through and add up all points I come up with around 620. If its 452 then I am obviously looking at some mission wrong.

                  The only place I can figure I might be off is the bacteria mission. when reading it first we were unsure if it was 3 points were available in total here, or if it was 3 points for each bacteria in the sink - something like 144 points.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mission point scoring

                    The highest possible score is 452. Yes, that includes 144 points from getting all the (non-yellow) bacteria into the sink.

                    I suspect that if you are getting higher counts, it's because you misinterpreted one or more of the missions where ONE element gets you a score, but you do not get multiple scores from ADDITIONAL elements. Like the corn kernels, for example.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mission point scoring

                      Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
                      The highest possible score is 452. Yes, that includes 144 points from getting all the (non-yellow) bacteria into the sink.

                      I suspect that if you are getting higher counts, it's because you misinterpreted one or more of the missions where ONE element gets you a score, but you do not get multiple scores from ADDITIONAL elements. Like the corn kernels, for example.
                      Thanks - Looking over the scoring again - maybe I miscounted this one:

                      MISSION: HAND WASH/VIRAL – Viruses almost always need a “host” (another living thing) to live on. They are almost
                      always bad, and they’re also somewhat harder to deal with than bacterial germs. Alcohol sanitizer, bleach sanitizer, and
                      high heat are the better weapons against viral germs, but hand washing is also helpful.
                      SCORING CONDITION(S): Get points for one of these only…
                      ---One to eight viral germs in the sink are worth exactly 6 POINTS only.
                      -----------OR-----------
                      ---Nine or more viral germs in the sink are worth exactly 13 POINTS only.
                      We were thinking this meant EACH virus. We didn't see this as being worded any different than the bacteria wording:
                      SCORING CONDITION(S): Bacteria in or on the sink are worth 3 POINTS
                      That one does not say each either.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mission point scoring

                        OK - I got it down to the 452. I was counting wrong on the virus and also double counting the fish as both in base for 3 each and in trailer for 6 each.

                        Thanks!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mission point scoring

                          I kept coming up with 448 points, but was forgetting the produce in the truck. I had already written this lengthy message detailing my counting, so I decided to post anyway in case others find it useful.

                          8 - Polution reversal (2 balls * 4 points each)
                          9 - Corn harvest (any corn in base)
                          0 - Fish in base. Worth more in refrigerated trailer
                          14 - Pizza and Ice Cream in base
                          9 - Yellow farm truck in base
                          9 - Robot touching east wall
                          14 - Cooking time
                          20 - Storage Temp
                          30 - Pest removal (2 rats * 15 points each)
                          38 - Refrigerated ground transport (clean truck at dock with meat and 3 fish)
                          24 - Groceries (12 groceries * 2 points each. Don't forget 2 in truck)
                          48 - Disinfect (4 Empty Dispensers * 12 points each. None on mat)
                          144 - Hand Wash/Bacterial (48 bacteria * 3 points each)
                          13 - Hand Wash/Viral (9+ viral germs in sink)
                          72 - Good Bacteria (12 yellow bacteria in base * 6 points each)
                          ----
                          452

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mission point scoring

                            TechBrick posted two versions of their score sheet. One version has the maximum points for each mission noted, the other doesn't.

                            Without max points
                            http://www.techbrick.com/Lego/Lego20...ngSheet-EN.pdf

                            With max points
                            http://techbrick.com/Lego/Lego2011/D...WithMax-EN.pdf

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