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  • Hang onto the edge of the table

    I understand the robot needs to start fully in base. Is it ok if the robot then lowers something over the edge of the table to be able to hold onto the edge? Any examples of people doing this well?

  • #2
    Its been done. Remember that not all tables have the same height walls. Old tables have 2x4 walls, newer tables 2x3 walls. You should also consider what will happen when you interrupt the robot. Items hanging over the wall are not completely in base. If the part hanging over the wall is part of your robot you'll likely get a touch penalty if you interrupt the robot. If the thing hanging over the wall is not part of the robot the referee will take it away if you interrupt the robot (unless it is a model).

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    • #3
      Ah those are good points. If it launched, then lowered something over the wall (considering the different wall heights), and brought it back to base - would the team be able to pick it up when the robot comes back to base (i.e. with a portion of it still over the wall)? Or would that be a penalty too?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ssm View Post
        Ah those are good points. If it launched, then lowered something over the wall (considering the different wall heights), and brought it back to base - would the team be able to pick it up when the robot comes back to base (i.e. with a portion of it still over the wall)? Or would that be a penalty too?
        If an object is hanging over the south or west wall, is it in base? Remember the definition for base:

        D07 - BASE - "Base" is the space directly above the Field's quarter-circle region, in the southwest.
        It extends southwest from the curved line TO the corner walls (no farther). The diagrams below
        define "COMPLETELY IN" for Base, but apply for ANY area.

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        • #5
          What happens when you interrupt the robot will depend on "what" is "where". If any part of the robot is not inside the base area (not volume, the height restriction only applies to launch) when you interrupt the robot you get a penalty. If something other than the robot, something not attached to the robot or designed to be detached from the robot, is partially in the base area when you interrupt the robot the referee will take that item away. If everything is inside the base area there is no penalty and the ref doesn't take anything away.

          I don't know what the ref would do to an item that starts in base and is attached to the wall by the robot in a way that the item is completely outside base. My guess is that such an item would be considered to be in storage. In the past there was a rule that said something about placing items in storage could not be "strategic", but I cannot find that rule or a similar restriction in this year's rules.
          Last edited by Dean Hystad; 11-01-2017, 11:11 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post
            Its been done. Remember that not all tables have the same height walls. Old tables have 2x4 walls, newer tables 2x3 walls. You should also consider what will happen when you interrupt the robot. Items hanging over the wall are not completely in base. If the part hanging over the wall is part of your robot you'll likely get a touch penalty if you interrupt the robot. If the thing hanging over the wall is not part of the robot the referee will take it away if you interrupt the robot (unless it is a model).

            I agree with Dean. You should factor in the height of the wall. I've even seen the width be different than a standard width of a 2x3 or 2x4 (which is less than 2"). Go figure.

            Here is an example of a team that held on to the wall.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cJ7...ature=youtu.be

            They had the robot clamp down after the launch and lift up the clamp when back in base. As was said above, these strategies can possibly be problematic if you have a removable attachment. If this wall clamp is ALWAYS part of the robot then you might just get a penalty and not have to forfeit the clamp if you picked up the robot while the clamp is over the wall. I liken that to your robot getting stuck while a permanent part of it is hanging over a wall (maybe the black wires connecting the motors to the brick). The judge wont take the wires away.

            Regardless, you might want to be very certain your strategy will work if you rely heavily on it.


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            • #7
              "Always" is not part of the robot definition. An item is part of the robot if it was attached to the controller by hand and only intended to be separated by hand. This means nearly all attachments are part of the robot. If the clamp is attached to the robot it will be considered part of the robot and you will get a penalty if you interrupt the robot while clamped.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by timdavid View Post

                If an object is hanging over the south or west wall, is it in base? Remember the definition for base:

                D07 - BASE - "Base" is the space directly above the Field's quarter-circle region, in the southwest.
                It extends southwest from the curved line TO the corner walls (no farther). The diagrams below
                define "COMPLETELY IN" for Base, but apply for ANY area.
                Note that there has been an official update for this, that indicates the walls around base are not considered when the robot returns to Base. Only the curved perimeter line around Base matters.
                FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                • #9
                  Late-breaking robot game update referenced by Tom:

                  7 November 2017
                  UPDATE 8 - BASE RETURN LENIENCY

                  A Robot entering Base will be considered "completely in Base" as soon as it matches the 2nd picture in Rule D07 even if there are portions of the Robot or something it has transported partially past the west or south border walls. This leniency does not apply for Launches.

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                  • #10
                    This is great news! My boys were so impressed with We are Robo girls, that they have used a similar approach to their robot this year. However, they didn't hold on to the wall and were noticing a problem with coming back into base (the robot would drift away). This leniency, really opens things up for them!
                    Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
                    Legolicious - 5th year girls team
                    Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

                    2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

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