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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

    Upon further review, this might be OK, if the team tells the refs that that first 'start' press is just part of the robot setup process, and the "Launch" is when the paper is removed.
    Except you can't use paper -- it would have to be a black LEGO plate -- but this is no different than hitting a button again.
    scoTT

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    • #17
      I like the phrasing Dean states about pressing a button is one (common) way to launch a bot, but it does not have to mean the bot is launched at that time. Yes, teams may fiddle with the bot and all its buttons, motors, and sensors as much they want in base. The way I try to separate something like a timer or master sequencer program "running" versus a R13 Launch, is the last human interaction with the bot.

      So the cleaner example might be a master program. The program is running (could have been started in the pits, waiting in line, during setup, or after the 3-2-1-LEGO, could have been running since last week - matters not). I still need to see one more overt human act to Launch the bot into an autonomous state. This is by interacting with a button or sensor. At that moment, al the R13 conditions must be true - not before while the team works with the bot.

      The word "Go" in R13 I think is likely too narrow. I think most will see this as "movement". Those that don't will mean program "running". When in fact neither are perfectly suited. I think it means "go bot, you are on your own now". Interpretive? Yea, but it seems to make sense to me. I think I could talk about it with 5th graders.



      So to the OP, if the bot is hanging out of base and the team touches a button to make the first part of the program retract - that is fine, but that is not yet a launch. Simply add in another WaitForButton type event (or go the color coded brick method, or other idea) or whole separate program. That secondary action is the launch, and it will have the bot properly configured (completely in base).

      If they only interact with the one button press, the bot is not yet fully in base - so they would need to re-launch. If they only interact with the one button press, and the mission model is placed onto a newly locked motor, they just interrupted the bot - so they would need to re-launch. ALL of the above is satisfied in looking at it is only one launch or as two attempts - by adding that second WaitForButton event.


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      • #18
        Paper is still allowed for notes, but must stay off the field. Can't be used on/with the robot or models, etc.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dna1990 View Post
          So to the OP, if the bot is hanging out of base and the team touches a button to make the first part of the program retract - that is fine, but that is not yet a launch. Simply add in another WaitForButton type event (or go the color coded brick method, or other idea) or whole separate program. That secondary action is the launch, and it will have the bot properly configured (completely in base).

          If they only interact with the one button press, the bot is not yet fully in base - so they would need to re-launch. If they only interact with the one button press, and the mission model is placed onto a newly locked motor, they just interrupted the bot - so they would need to re-launch. ALL of the above is satisfied in looking at it is only one launch or as two attempts - by adding that second WaitForButton event.
          Another possibility is to have the this arm be a part of the first mission and have it raised (via the program) before getting to the table. One (additional) action can then launch the robot.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
            If teams are using a sequencer, typically it's already running on the robot before they arrive at the table and put the robot down in Base. Teams can start running programs at any time - as long as the refs aren't inspecting the robots to be sure that Bluetooth is disabled.
            I don't want teams thinking they are getting away with something if they start a program before stepping up to the table. When you step up to the table you have some amount of time for setup before the initial launch. Some teams use this time to calibrate light sensors (mostly unnecessary with EV3 color sensors). Wary teams take a quick peek at the gyro sensor. All teams use some of this time to set up the robot in base. Part of your setup can be starting programs in preparation for launch. Starting a program is not a launch unless you intend it to be. You can even start a program, change attachments, load cargo, even press buttons to move motors. It doesn't matter because the robot is in base and the robot is not launched.

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            • #21
              Ok, let's go down this rabbit hole a little further...
              There are sensors inside the motors that sense their position. So what if a team sets up their robot and the action that makes it go is to move a beam tied to a motor. It senses that the motor has changed X degrees and triggers the the program. Legal?
              I say yes. R12 says "touch a button or signal a sensor to activate a program" and I believe they have signaled a sensor in the motor.

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              • #22
                I don't think you are even approaching a rabbit hole. While I don't think it would be a good idea to launch the robot by pushing the robot or moving one of the attachments it would be completely within the rules. As far as launching is concerned there is no difference between a button, a touch sensor, a light sensor or a rotation sensor.

                As far as I can see there is nothing in the rules that defines when a launch ends. It should be legal to continue touching the robot until it interacts with a model or drives out of base. If you can figure out a way to benefit from this you may find it challenging to find referees who agree.

                This reminds me of my second favorite scheduler program. The program used the right drive motor to scroll through the mission list, kind of like a track ball.
                Last edited by Dean Hystad; 01-02-2018, 04:52 PM.

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                • #23
                  Might be right

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