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M14 Meteoroid Independence

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  • M14 Meteoroid Independence

    I have a question related to the phrase "clearly independent" in M14. What if the robot first placed a wall near the meteoroid collector prior to launching a meteoroid from west of the Free-Line. If this wall was used to guide/deflect the meteoroid in transit to the collector would this violate the concept of independence? Or is independence defined as free from interference by the robot after launch?
    Last edited by jasponti; 09-18-2018, 09:44 AM.

  • #2
    The definition for independence is hidden in M01.

    As a Mission requirement in any Mission, the word "Independent" means "not in contact with any of your Equipment."
    While between hit/release and scoring position, the Meteoroid * must be clearly Independent.
    So using a wall, which is considered part of your equipment, to guide meteoroid into the collector would not score.

    As a referee, I have feeling I'm going to have to deal with a team exploiting the wording of "While between hit/release and scoring position" sometime this season.
    Last edited by BotDesigner; 09-18-2018, 02:17 PM.
    FLL alumni, mentor, referee, judge

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    • #3
      Thank you. I had missed that definition of independent. As a follow-up, if the robot, prior to launching the meteoroid, first props up the collector so that it's front is raised in the air (to help better catch the meteoroid), that would be fine as long as the ball doesn't touch the prop device (I realize that's a risk).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
        As a referee, I have feeling I'm going to have to deal with a team exploiting the wording of "While between hit/release and scoring position" sometime this season.
        I'm also a referee, and I have that same feeling.


        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
          The definition for independence is hidden in M01.

          So using a wall, which is considered part of your equipment, to guide meteoroid into the collector would not score.
          The wall is part of a team's equipment? That doesnt make sense. My team didnt bring the wall, nor the table nor the mat and mission modules. If the wall is my team's equipment then wouldnt the mat also be? the ball is likely to hit the mat on the way to the collector. If using the wall is illegal then using the mat would be too. How about bouncing it off of mission modules? If it ever so slightly grazes a mission module that is not put there by the team then you (as ref) would say it wasn't independent?

          If the wall is my team's equipment, I'd tell them to take it with them back to the pit, but that wouldnt have a good sense of gracious professionalism. Other teams likely have to use the table.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by cschaffer View Post

            The wall is part of a team's equipment? That doesnt make sense. My team didnt bring the wall, nor the table nor the mat and mission modules. If the wall is my team's equipment then wouldnt the mat also be? the ball is likely to hit the mat on the way to the collector. If using the wall is illegal then using the mat would be too. How about bouncing it off of mission modules? If it ever so slightly grazes a mission module that is not put there by the team then you (as ref) would say it wasn't independent?

            If the wall is my team's equipment, I'd tell them to take it with them back to the pit, but that wouldnt have a good sense of gracious professionalism. Other teams likely have to use the table.
            Not "the field wall", it was "a wall" as proposed in the OP:

            What if the robot first placed a wall near the meteoroid collector
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
              The definition for independence is hidden in M01.



              So using a wall, which is considered part of your equipment, to guide meteoroid into the collector would not score.

              As a referee, I have feeling I'm going to have to deal with a team exploiting the wording of "While between hit/release and scoring position" sometime this season.
              I would be interesting to see if any team would take part of the mission models such as the samples they collected earlier to build this "wall". It would not be easy, but I guess it is do-able.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

                Not "the field wall", it was "a wall" as proposed in the OP:
                I guess I was caught not fully reading the original post

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