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  • M04

    M04: Does the agent need to be attached to the robot? If not, does the agent need to be collected and returned to base (such as rolling an object to flatten the gate)?

  • #2
    Let's look at what the Challenge says:
    All weight-bearing features of the crossing equipment must cross *completely between the towers.
    Crossing must be *from east to west, and make it completely past the flattened Gate.

    Also, in Guiding Principal 2: If a detail isn't mentioned, then it doesn't matter.

    So the Challenge says nothing about the crossing equipment being attached to the robot. It says nothing about anything needs to be collected and returned to base. It also says nothing about how the gate must be flattened other than it the crossing equipment must completely pass the flattened gate. So you can go over the gate or under the gate or even go through the gate (no idea how you'd actually do it, but the rules say only that you have to go past the flattened gate so other than "completely past" "between the towers" and the gate being "flattened" it doesn't matter). As long as your solution satisfies the requirements specifically laid out in the Challenge, you're good to go.

    --
    Fort Worth Robotics - North Texas Region Team #455
    Technical coach, baker of the cookies, keeper of the time, transporter of the travel field walls, finder of the spare parts, maker of the pop culture references that only the other tall people understand.

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    • #3
      There is another thread on this:
      https://forums.usfirst.org/forum/gen...rater-crossing

      As mentioned above, M04 is open to may possibilities. The mission is a "method" mission and not a visible upon completion mission, because it is marked with an asterisk * and not underlined. The method of solving the mission must be "the ONLY one used, and must be OBSERVED by the referee." (Scoring Requirement Signals).

      So, as mentioned above, the requirements are:
      1) the method is All weight-bearing features of the crossing equipment must cross *completely between the towers.
      2) the method is Crossing must be *from east to west, and make it completely past the flattened Gate.

      As to your question, does the agent need to be attached to the robot, I suggest that M04 requires that the agent NOT be attached. If it is attached, it is part of the robot (D04) and then the entire robot would need to cross the crater. Any agent craft sent out must be separate from the robot and not attached in any fashion.
      Last edited by DJR; 09-28-2018, 10:58 AM.
      FLL coach Trash Trek on, State 4x, World 2x, state ref, state judge.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DJR View Post
        ... I suggest that M04 requires that the agent NOT be attached. If it is attached, it is part of the robot (D04) and then the entire robot would need to cross the crater. Any agent craft sent out must be separate from the robot and not attached in any fashion.
        I don't disagree with your overall assessment, but I think you are reading requirements into M04 that do not exist.

        Regarding the underlined portion of your response, the key requirement is the "weight-bearing features of the crossing equipment". It seems entirely possible to have an attachment that doesn't have any weight-bearing features - and the team will likely get Benefit of the Doubt on that, because the referees have no way to measure weight-bearing properties during a match.

        The robot isn't mentioned in the scoring rules. "Agent" is only mentioned in the "Simply Speaking" text, so it isn't a scoring rule. Agent isn't defined in the rules, and under GP2 I don't think it has a "common conversational meaning" that applies to this use of the word.

        I continue to wonder why this mission rule was written with such obscure language. If the intention was that the robot cross the craters, it could easily have been written that way.

        Yes, the robot includes anything that is attached to it. But that does not by itself mean that the entire robot must pass between the towers.
        Last edited by Tom Mosher; 09-28-2018, 12:44 PM.
        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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        • #5
          Interesting side question: "completely past the flattened Gate" doesn't mean "completely past the completely flattened Gate", right? If so, the Gate does not need to be COMPLETELY flattened.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ws1088 View Post
            Interesting side question: "completely past the flattened Gate" doesn't mean "completely past the completely flattened Gate", right? If so, the Gate does not need to be COMPLETELY flattened.
            That depends on how you define "flattened".
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #7
              The common conversational meaning of flat is clear to me. Pretty much close to horizontal. If the gate is 20 degrees away from being down I'd rule that's not enough. But if I have to peer under the gate to see whether there is a gap then that would be down enough for me.

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