Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

M11 Escape Velocity - How reliable is it?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by WilliamFrantz View Post

    This is another thing I've wondered for a long time. Can the kids manually load up some energy in base before launching the robot? Is that allowed? For example, if the kids pull a ripcord on a speedor in base, can the robot then transport the speedor over to the craters and drop it? Certainly, the flywheel would still be spinning and would probably have enough energy to cross the barrier but I'm not sure if this type of thing would be legal.

    I assume it would have to be legal since lots of teams manually load up energy in base. I've seen kids manually pump up pneumatic tanks or manually wind up rubber bands. Technically, even perching a weight on top of a robot or raising a heavy hammer wouldn't be any different than pulling a ripcord. Almost everybody puts some energy into something for the robot.

    The difference between your ripcord on a speedorz and the other examples of teams manually loading up energy in base is motion. As a referee, I wouldn't allow a spinning flywheel like the speedorz because of R13-Launching. R13 requires that "The referee can see that nothing on the Field is moving or being handled" before a launch.


    Jeff
    Jeff Bartig
    Wisconsin Region FLL Head Ref

    Comment


    • #17

      I see what you mean. "Base" is certainly part of "Field" and R13 seems to require that all objects are at rest. I suppose winding up a rubber band is allowed but it can't start unwinding until after launch.

      hmmm...

      R13 is potentially a problem for some of these "shared" missions across tables. This year isn't a particularly good example since it's just flipping a panel, but I recall the 2016 Animal Allies field had a turntable that was slowly operated by the opposing team. The turntable on their field extended on to your field. Therefore, if the other robot was in the process of turning the turntable are you technically prohibited from launching due to R13? After all, there's something moving on your field.

      We've also seen some clock mechanisms in prior years. For example, in 2015 Trash Trek there was a composter mission where the robot would start the composter, go do other things, and then come back to pick up the compost (which took a while to eject). Again, is the robot prohibited from launching while the composter is in motion?

      Regardless, due to R13, I guess I wouldn't try the flywheel by hand. Although you could attach the ripcord to the wall (using a hanger, for example), then as the robot left base, the cord would start the flywheel. It seems like that would be allowed since everything would be at rest for the launch.
      Last edited by WilliamFrantz; 11-07-2018, 10:49 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by WilliamFrantz View Post

        R13 is potentially a problem for some of these "shared" missions across tables. This year isn't a particularly good example since it's just flipping a panel, but I recall the 2016 Animal Allies field had a turntable that was slowly operated by the opposing team. The turntable on their field extended on to your field. Therefore, if the other robot was in the process of turning the turntable are you technically prohibited from launching due to R13? After all, there's something moving on your field.
        Good point. Luckily, I don't remember that happening at any of the tournaments I was at that year. Maybe we weren't paying close enough attention to that issue.

        We've also seen some clock mechanisms in prior years. For example, in 2015 Trash Trek there was a composter mission where the robot would start the composter, go do other things, and then come back to pick up the compost (which took a while to eject). Again, is the robot prohibited from launching while the composter is in motion?
        The composter didn't run for that long, so it likely would be difficult to activate it, drive all the way back to base, and be launching before it was done.


        Regardless, due to R13, I guess I wouldn't try the flywheel by hand. Although you could attach the ripcord to the wall (using a hanger, for example), then as the robot left base, the cord would start the flywheel. It seems like that would be allowed since everything would be at rest for the launch.
        You couldn't launch if your ripcord attachment hanger extended over the wall, which would be outside base.

        Jeff

        Jeff Bartig
        Wisconsin Region FLL Head Ref

        Comment


        • #19


          Ours is very reliable if approaching to the front of the Launchpad, from the middle of the table. Coming straight out of Base and hitting it from the side and then backing to base again we also only get about 1 and 10. My guess is coming from the side you have to be more accurate with where you hit the strike panel. Coming from the front it doesn't seem to be an issue.


          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by amy.eddy View Post

            Ours is very reliable if approaching to the front of the Launchpad, from the middle of the table. Coming straight out of Base and hitting it from the side and then backing to base again we also only get about 1 and 10. My guess is coming from the side you have to be more accurate with where you hit the strike panel. Coming from the front it doesn't seem to be an issue.

            My guess is you figured out how to line up really well approaching the model from the North, but not when approaching from the West. Other teams will figure out how to reliably score approaching from the West.

            Escape velocity will be popular because making a big hammer is fun and a lot of coaches disapprove of fun activities like smashing things or throwing things. M11 is a free pass to be destructive, or at least mimic being destructive.

            Comment


            • #21
              Our team used the hammer for both Escape Velocity and the solar panels. That was a perfect combination. The only problem was when opponent refused to not take their solar panel our team were left with 18 points instead of 40 since the hammer, they way they used it, only worked when panel was centered. This was only really an issue once when they met the team ending up winning the robot competition.

              Once during the competition the opponent even pushed their panel back and ended up taking 18 points instead of 22 :-D. They was told by my team that they did not need to take their panel which makes it even more funny. But kids are kids. Still they got 133 points that round which turned out to be their best score - but could have had 155 instead.

              Comment


              • #22
                We didn't do Escape at the qualifier, but are going to try it for the regional tourney. We tested a medium-motor-powered 8" arm dropping 4 steel castor balls. It pegs the shuttle at the end of the track every single time. 2 balls made it almost go over the top. The position of the arm was not critical. I trust the kids will program the robot to reliably hit it. They plan to hit it from the front after backing into Food Chamber.

                Take home: with a heavy enough weight, it should be reliable.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by mageus View Post
                  2 balls made it almost go over the top..
                  My team is using 2 balls and 90% of the time the shuttle goes over the top if they line up perfectly (from the side). I'd like to see them add another ball to their hammer, but they need to realize it will help them. In the mean time I patiently weight (pun intended). Thanks for the confirmation that for once this coach was thinking in the right direction.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    We've gone away from the weighted hammer approach and instead shoot a tire at the paddle using rubber bands. It's like a slingshot, pointed straight down at the paddle. We don't even use a motor. The attachment is much lighter, smaller, and hits with greater force. Of course, we are using (several) genuine Lego rubberbands.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by WilliamFrantz View Post
                      We've gone away from the weighted hammer approach and instead shoot a tire at the paddle using rubber bands. It's like a slingshot, pointed straight down at the paddle. We don't even use a motor. The attachment is much lighter, smaller, and hits with greater force. Of course, we are using (several) genuine Lego rubberbands.
                      You need just as much weight as before. Now you are probably borrowing weight from the robot. Efficient..
                      Last edited by Dean Hystad; 12-01-2018, 07:01 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I'm really proud of my kids for their solutions to this one. I work with two teams, and while both went with the "hammer" strategy, they've gone in opposite directions. One went lighter while the other went heavier. The heavy hammer moves pretty darn slowly, but when it lands, it really packs a punch. The light hammer moves a lot faster and strikes the plate with a sharp pow. And the cool thing is, both solutions work! It has been a good opportunity to have a quick physics lesson: mass X velocity = momentum. So, for my teams: bigger mass X slower velocity = sufficient momentum **OR** smaller mass X faster velocity = sufficient momentum. Both work!


                        Having watched the kids run a lot of missions, I'd say they're both at about 90% reliability.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by brian@kidbrothers.net View Post
                          Having watched the kids run a lot of missions, I'd say they're both at about 90% reliability.
                          I judged again today and I am seeing something similar. Lots of different combos to get enough momentum. Long attachments, short attachments, heavy attachments, light attachments. In nearly every case success depends almost entirely on hitting the paddle in the right space (because they already figured out the momentum part). Teams that figured out how to always hit the paddle in the right place are reliably getting points while teams that aim from back in base usually don't.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It is very reliable... until it randomly doesn't work! Sometimes it doesn't go high enough, other times, it bounces from the top and falls down . We expect it to fail 5-10% of the time.

                            Our positioning is DEAD ON! We are using the south wall to align North/South and we use the line to align East/West.
                            Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
                            Legolicious - 5th year girls team
                            Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

                            2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X