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Does R10 incur a penalty?

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  • Does R10 incur a penalty?

    R10 - HANDLING DURING THE MATCH
    You are not allowed to interact with any part of the Field that's not COMPLETELY in Base.
    Except: You may Interrupt the Robot any time
    Except: You may pick up Equipment that BROKE off the Robot UNINTENTIONALLY, anywhere, any time.
    Am I correct in reading that the second exception does not incur a touch penalty?

    Last edited by EricM; 12-11-2018, 07:26 PM. Reason: Finally! Beware of Unicode apostrophe's and bullet list dots!

  • #2
    The only penalty that exists is for R14 "Interruption".
    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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    • #3
      The head ref at an event I was the MC at a couple weeks ago was giving out touch penalties for R10 violations ... it's a surprisingly common misconception.
      FLL alumni, mentor, referee, judge

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
        The head ref at an event I was the MC at a couple weeks ago was giving out touch penalties for R10 violations ... it's a surprisingly common misconception.
        Wow.
        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
          The head ref at an event I was the MC at a couple weeks ago was giving out touch penalties for R10 violations ... it's a surprisingly common misconception.
          What were the R10 penalties for in the match?
          If they were for interrupting the robot, sure it's a penalty (R14) no matter what they accidentially call it.
          If they were penalties for touching something in the field then I understand the problem.

          Maybe I am missing the concern here, but I'm thinking just about interrupting the robot as the OP mentioned.

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          • #6
            I think the OP was specifically addressing picking up broken-off robot pieces.

            Officially there are no "touch penalties", there are only "Interruption penalties".

            I'm not sure exactly what "BotDesigner" was referring to as "R10 violations".
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
              I think the OP was specifically addressing picking up broken-off robot pieces.

              Officially there are no "touch penalties", there are only "Interruption penalties".
              I see now. Thanks. Yeah, giving penalties for broken pieces would be a big problem

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              • #8
                Thanks! I thought the rule was pretty clear, but I told the kids I would double check

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                • #9
                  Whoops, misread (or maybe didn't completely read) the original post. To clarify, the "R10 violations" didn't have to do with the second exception. Teams were allowed to interact with stuff (not attached to the robot) outside of base but were given given a "touch penalty" for doing so.
                  FLL alumni, mentor, referee, judge

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
                    Whoops, misread (or maybe didn't completely read) the original post. To clarify, the "R10 violations" didn't have to do with the second exception. Teams were allowed to interact with stuff (not attached to the robot) outside of base but were given given a "touch penalty" for doing so.
                    That sounds like a pretty good deal! Walk over, grab the lander, place it in the circle, but pay an interruption penalty. Well worth it!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BotDesigner View Post
                      Teams were allowed to interact with stuff (not attached to the robot) outside of base but were given given a "touch penalty" for doing so.
                      Yeah, that's nuts. The rules are crystal clear on this stuff:

                      R10 gives a specific exception to "equipment that broke off the robot unintentionally" and just to be sure it is understood, they added the words "anywhere, any time". Definitely no penalty there.

                      As far as other stuff outside of base, the rules are equally clear:

                      R10 and R11 say you can't touch models on the field.

                      And R14 and R15 talk about what happens to a "transported thing":
                      • As long as it is touching the robot, it is considered part of the robot.
                      • If a kid "interrupts" the robot, meaning they pick it up and return it to base, a transported thing that is going from base out into the field and is still being carried by the robot when is considered part of the robot. Penalty for the interruption, but not for the transported thing.
                      • If a kid interrupts the robot, a transported thing that was retrieved while outside of base (this year, the cone module, meteoroid ball, extraction samples, lander, etc.) that is still being carried by the robot is given to the referee. Penalty for the interruption, but not for the transported thing.
                      • If a kid does not interrupt the robot, but a transported thing just falls off on its own outside of base, it is left wherever it falls. No penalty.



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                      • #12
                        On somewhat related topic, we have an "attachment" that is pushed by the robot (I use quotation marks because isn't actually attached to the robot, but it is in physical contact). One time, it didn't go straight and caused robot to be entangled with the "attachment". Team interrupted and rescued the robot, leaving the "attachment on the field". Should they have been able to pick up the "attachment" too?
                        Last edited by Leon R; 12-12-2018, 10:22 AM.
                        Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
                        Legolicious - 5th year girls team
                        Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

                        2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

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                        • #13
                          This is the "attachment" https://www.facebook.com/leon.reitma...7104662318013/
                          Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
                          Legolicious - 5th year girls team
                          Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

                          2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Read what happens to transported items when the robot is interrupted. It doesn't matter what the transported items look like.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leon R View Post
                              Sigh. This forum was the last bastion of the internet that was free from cute cat videos.

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