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Coming back to base - Into Orbit season

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  • Coming back to base - Into Orbit season

    I have not idea where I got this idea, but I was under the impression that we coming back to base, south and west walls were not part of the base boundary (only mattered when starting). Was this an old rule? I can't find anything in current rules that treats leaving base any different than coming back.
    Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
    Legolicious - 5th year girls team
    Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

    2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

  • #2
    I think Base has always been defined by the south and west walls.

    A long time ago, penalties only occurred if the robot was touched while completely outside of base (example: 2012 "Senior Solutions", Rule 20 "Touch Penalties").

    Now the Interruption penalty applies unless "completely-IN Base", so the south and west wall limits are now enforced when the robot returns.
    Last edited by Tom Mosher; 12-18-2018, 02:16 PM.
    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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    • #3
      I think ref's give a lot of "benefit of doubt" on this and don't give penalties if you drive "through" the base and are a little late (or tiny bit early) interrupting the robot. If upon return your robot is never "IN" base you should (and probably will) be penalized.

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      • #4
        I think the previous "outside-Base" rule was changed to "completely-In Base" when the shape of base changed from rectangular to a quarter-circle arc in the 2015 challenge (Trash Trek).

        For Trash Trek, there were two curved lines around Base, the inner one was used for launching, and the outer one ("Safety") was used to return to Base.

        For 2016 through today, there is only one curved line around Base, and the "completely-In Base" rule wording has been consistent. I think FIRST discovered last year that referees were not commonly enforcing the over-the-wall limitation on return to Base, so it was emphasized this season in referee training.
        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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        • #5
          Some of the confusion this year is a result of last year's Update #8 "BASE RETURN LENIENCY" which specifically allowed returning robot or transported item to overhang the south/west wall inside base upon return to base. This year, they have not mentioned this leniency.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by is1c View Post
            Some of the confusion this year is a result of last year's Update #8 "BASE RETURN LENIENCY" which specifically allowed returning robot or transported item to overhang the south/west wall inside base upon return to base. This year, they have not mentioned this leniency.
            Thank you! I knew I was getting it somewhere Of course, it doesn't make any more legal this year
            Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
            Legolicious - 5th year girls team
            Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

            2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by is1c View Post
              Some of the confusion this year is a result of last year's Update #8 "BASE RETURN LENIENCY" which specifically allowed returning robot or transported item to overhang the south/west wall inside base upon return to base. This year, they have not mentioned this leniency.
              The leniency was purposefully not put into the rules this year - from what I observed, it was sometimes abused in that some teams did not even attempt to have the robot get entirely into base.
              Base extends to the walls but does not include the thickness of the table walls
              "Base" is the space directly above the Field's quarter-circle region. in the southwest. It extends southwest from the outside of the thin curved line TO the corner walls (no farther).
              Alan

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              • #8
                Originally posted by alanggreen View Post
                The leniency was purposefully not put into the rules this year - from what I observed, it was sometimes abused in that some teams did not even attempt to have the robot get entirely into base.
                This sounds like teams weren't getting completely into the base quarter circle line. If refs were allowing this, it was wrong.

                Legolympians - 2009-2015 (retired - joined FRC team 5422 Stormgears)
                Legolicious - 5th year girls team
                Brick Force - 2nd year boys team

                2015 - Mass FLL coach of the year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leon R View Post

                  This sounds like teams weren't getting completely into the base quarter circle line. If refs were allowing this, it was wrong.
                  I think referees are very good at watching the curved base boundary, through years of training on previous seasons where "partly-in Base" was good enough to avoid a penalty.

                  The issue was that teams were creating robots that expanded over the south or west wall at Launch (e.g. a flip-down wall guide), then using them to aid in navigation as they drove out of Base, then not retracting those guiding tools when they came back into Base. So the robot was not completely-in Base because it violated the South or West walls.
                  FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

                    I think referees are very good at watching the curved base boundary, through years of training on previous seasons where "partly-in Base" was good enough to avoid a penalty.

                    The issue was that teams were creating robots that expanded over the south or west wall at Launch (e.g. a flip-down wall guide), then using them to aid in navigation as they drove out of Base, then not retracting those guiding tools when they came back into Base. So the robot was not completely-in Base because it violated the South or West walls.
                    I'd agree with that observation. Also. I saw robots that could fit into base, but because of the angle and position at which they entered base, they went over the south or west walls. What started out as a leniency became a cover for sloppy work.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by alanggreen View Post

                      I'd agree with that observation. Also. I saw robots that could fit into base, but because of the angle and position at which they entered base, they went over the south or west walls. What started out as a leniency became a cover for sloppy work.
                      Leniency is a hilarious concept. It implies "This is a bad thing, but we will let you do it. Don't tell your mom." In FLL the only leniency is Benefit of Doubt. Anything else that has been labeled a leniency is a rule. If a leniency says it is ok to hang over the edge, the rules say it is ok to hang over the edge, and teams should take any advantage they can from that rule. It isn't sloppy work when it is good strategy.

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                      • #12
                        Does the robot need to get back to base in time at the end once completing all your missions within the time limit or do you lose points for this? This is right at the end of all the missions?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aayushi View Post
                          Does the robot need to get back to base in time at the end once completing all your missions within the time limit or do you lose points for this? This is right at the end of all the missions?
                          Aayushi,
                          No, you can leave your robot out on the field after the time expires. There is no requirement for it to return to base.

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