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  • City Shaper Online Score Calculator

    I just took the first crack at putting together a score calculator: https://ostermiller.org/fll/city-shaper.html

    It looks like the maximum possible points should be right around 600. This depends on a few assumptions that i've made.
    • How many supports can you knock out of the test building and still have it meet the requirements of resting only on the blue supports? The official paper score sheet says "6", but right now I don't see how it could work with less than 3. Maybe you can knock them all down and place the building on top of them when knocked down? I may have to revisit this mission on the score sheet once our team can experiment.
    • I think the highest scoring use of the building units is:
      • 1 blue unit supporting the crane: 15 points
      • 1 blue unit in the small tree branches: 15 points (If more can fit here, then I'll have to update the calculator)
      • 2 blue units in the large tree branches: 20 points
      • 12 red, white, and tan units standing 2 high (or stacked) in (or partly in) circles: 120 points (You would have to stand up the white one that is already on the board)
      • Make sure a red, white, and tan unit are each completely in their matching color circle: 30 points
      • You could also put the bigger units in the large branches of the tree, but they score the same points as standing 2 high in a circle
    • How many flags can you put up on the bridge? The official paper score sheet seems to indicate 3. Maybe there are actually 4 flags between 2 tables though?
    The scoring is a more complicated this year for two reasons:
    • This is the first year for which I've written a calculator where you initially have points if you don't mess them up. You get 60 points for not getting penalties. You appear to get points for the way the board is set up with a white building in the white circle. My "clear" functionality doesn't work correctly because of this yet.
    • Having your robot fit in the small inspection area gives you a bonus of 70 points between the various missions. I think I got it working, but I had to update the code that does the scoring to handle it.
    Some notes on the design of this particular calculator:
    • I designed it last year for use with my team. I've gone back and created calculators for a few other past years as well. This is the first time I'm announcing it publicly.
    • It is easy to use on a cell phone so it can be used at tournaments. Everything is sized appropriately for small screens. All the scoring is push-button, you never have to enter numbers or text. Unlike some other calculators I've seen, there isn't much explanation of the rules on the calculator itself, it is mostly just an array of buttons. Sometimes I favor compactness over clarity.
    • Once it is loaded, it doesn't require internet access. It is JavaScript based and the "save" functionality writes to LocalStorage on your device. Each calculator is a single page web application.
    • It is likely to get updated as we get a better understanding of the rules. I may also re-arrange items or re-label items for clarity, fit on the screen, or how I like them arranged
    If you have any suggestions or bugs with the calculator, please post here or contact me through the contact link on my website home page.

  • #2
    The Seshans just released a phone app with a built in calculator. I found it on the Apple App Store searching for "City Shaper".
    Last edited by jasponti; 08-02-2019, 09:26 AM.

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    • #3
      Yes, I've used Asha Seshan's scorers before. His web page scorer is here: http://flltutorials.com/Resources/20...rer/index.html and his iPhone app is here: https://apps.apple.com/lt/app/fll-ci...r/id1473760751

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      • #4
        Originally posted by stephen-ostermiller View Post
        Yes, I've used Asha Seshan's scorers before. His web page scorer is here: http://flltutorials.com/Resources/20...rer/index.html and his iPhone app is here: https://apps.apple.com/lt/app/fll-ci...r/id1473760751
        Actually, it is Arvind and Sanjay Seshan's apps and pages. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't let kids have developer accounts for the App Store - so they needed an adult to post the apps. :-)

        Thanks for posting the pointers to their apps/pages.
        Mentor: FLL 51 2011-2018 (retired, World Festival Champion's); FRC 8027 (2020-)
        Judge: Western PA, World Festival, Razorback Open, Mountain State
        Head Referee: Western PA Championships

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        • #5
          Originally posted by stephen-ostermiller View Post
          This is the first year for which I've written a calculator where you initially have points if you don't mess them up. You get 60 points for not getting penalties. You appear to get points for the way the board is set up with a white building in the white circle. My "clear" functionality doesn't work correctly because of this yet.
          This doesn't need to make a difference, since scores are actually calculated at the end of the match. If you want to have your scorer default to the field's initial setup conditions that's fine, but the team hasn't really scored anything yet.

          I started looking at your scorer and have some initial comments:
          • There are only 2 flags possible for Elevated Places. The scoresheet has to have the option of showing no flags being raised, so there's a zero, a one, and a two.
          • You left out the possibility of scoring the crane's blue block being supported by another blue block
          • You only have spots to mark 3 beams in Safety Factor while the official scoresheet has 6.
          I recommend you take a close look at the official score sheet and make sure that your scorer can record all of the conditions the official sheet can.
          Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
          KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

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          • #6
            I read Mission 1 as a max of 4 flags. The rules do not state one or both flags (butone or more flags) It also goes on to state "it is ok and expected for robots to collide while trying to earn flag points." which could allow for all flags on the top platform to be earned.

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            • #7
              bridge.PNG
              Looking at the bridge across two tables (admittedly not a great image), it appears that there are only two flags. Having actually built the bridge last night, the bridge crossed well beyond our table walls. I had to add an extra platform to properly support the top of the bridge. FLL provided an extra bridge section (in parts Bag #1) to complete the top of the bridge with orange pins that can be removed so that the two sections can be mated for competition tables. This save me from doing what I did last year when I built a second solar array from extra parts to allow the team to practice.
              Last edited by jasponti; 08-02-2019, 02:18 PM.

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              • #8
                I apologize, I did not build the mission models yet. After checking out some of my photos I took at Detroit, I agree there are only two flags. Sorry for any confusion.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by is1c View Post
                  I read Mission 1 as a max of 4 flags. The rules do not state one or both flags (butone or more flags) It also goes on to state "it is ok and expected for robots to collide while trying to earn flag points." which could allow for all flags on the top platform to be earned.
                  The mission model only has two flags, and the official scoresheet has a max of 2.
                  Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
                  KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    About M09 Safety Factor. I believe a condition that scores all 6 blue beams could be achieved.
                    Last edited by kaptainoakley; 08-07-2019, 04:12 PM.

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                    • #11
                      That makes sense kaptainoakley. I updated the calculator to allow have all six beams. The other question is how many building units could actually fit in the tree? The rules allow for all 16 to be piled on the small branches for 15 points each, but I highly doubt that is practical.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stephen-ostermiller View Post
                        How many supports can you knock out of the test building and still have it meet the requirements of resting only on the blue supports? The official paper score sheet says "6", but right now I don't see how it could work with less than 3.

                        Originally posted by kaptainoakley View Post
                        I can create a condition that scores all 6 blue beams by having...

                        It's a lot of fun for coaches to speculate about methods here on the forum, but I'd like to convince you not to do it anymore. Possibly even edit your posts and remove these parts.

                        These are details that the teams should each work out for themselves. If you give away solutions you rob some teams of the chance to have that satisfaction themselves. And it could be argued that if one team reads your comments, and another valiant team does their own work, you've put the self reliant teams at a disadvantage.

                        Is it legal? Sure. Will some teams post full Youtube videos of their runs before others have gone to their first scrimmage? Yes, they will, and I will grumble then too.


                        I've been a coach for a long time. I've met Scott Evans (game designer) and Lee Magpilli (Lego Ed Master Builder who designs the actual models) many times, and love to see their deviousness. I did NOT tell my relatively young team the ideas from your post. But I did ask them to read the wording very carefully on that mission. I did print out the score sheet, and ask them to read the entry for that mission. Some people would argue that that was too much over-coaching on my part, and I would agree that they have a valid point. I'd have hinted a lot less or not at all with an older team.


                        Please reconsider. Maybe scroll back through previous years and look for examples of old respected contributors posting like this. Actually, you'll see them dance around the subject, discussing the legality of methods without ever describing how to do it.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kaptainoakley View Post
                          About M09 Safety Factor. The way I'm reading it, using my hands, I can create a condition that scores all 6 blue beams by having the Test Building sit on top of at least four beams that have been knocked out at least half way. The house can also balance on two vertical beams. I'm assuming knocked out at least half way means the blue beam is at least 45 degrees from its original position. Does that seem right? I'm thinking if I can do it by hand, some FLL obsessed team member (of which there are a lot) somewhere could probably figure out a way to make it happen.
                          I recommend you not post solutions to the missions on the Forum. Teams have a better experience if they discover the solutions themselves, rather than read them and duplicate the work of others.
                          FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stephen-ostermiller View Post
                            I just took the first crack at putting together a score calculator: https://ostermiller.org/fll/city-shaper.html

                            It looks like the maximum possible points should be right around 600. This depends on a few assumptions that i've made.[LIST][*]How many supports can you knock out of the test building and still have it meet the requirements of resting only on the blue supports? The official paper score sheet says "6", but right now I don't see how it could work with less than 3. Maybe you can knock them all down and place the building on top of them when knocked down? I may have to revisit this mission on the score sheet once our team can experiment.[*]I think the highest scoring use of the building units is:
                            • 1 blue unit supporting the crane: 15 points
                            • 1 blue unit in the small tree branches: 15 points (If more can fit here, then I'll have to update the calculator)
                            • 2 blue units in the large tree branches: 20 points
                            • 12 red, white, and tan units standing 2 high (or stacked) in (or partly in) circles: 120 points (You would have to stand up the white one that is already on the board)
                            • Make sure a red, white, and tan unit are each completely in their matching color circle: 30 points
                            • You could also put the bigger units in the large branches of the tree, but they score the same points as standing 2 high in a circle
                            Same comment. Posting your thoughts about the mission solutions doesn't really help teams get the most out of their experience.
                            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

                              Same comment. Posting your thoughts about the mission solutions doesn't really help teams get the most out of their experience.
                              I echo Tom Mosher's comments about posting solutions and suggest that there are other combinations that teams will discover that are different and maybe higher points than what was quoted. Many teams talk about this board and review it and never sign up and never post. Let's let them figure out the specifics and not lead them in possibly the wrong direction.
                              My team is given an assignment to figure out the total maximum points and they are past 600 and still working combinations/physical limitations.
                              FLL coach Trash Trek on, State 4x, World 2x, ref, judge advisor.

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