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  • #16
    Originally posted by Belleview Robotics View Post

    My next question would be what would be the advantage of holding something in you hand? If you have to have your hand over the inspection area, then the combined space taken up would be greater in addition to running into the 12' height maximum.

    Just wondering
    It would depend on the shape of the objects you are trying to fit in the inspection area, but I could certainly envision a team wanting to hold a large attachment above the mat to avoid having it tilt and exceed the height limit for the inspection volume.

    I foresee some teams building a box/drawer/cage/walls or similar object to hold all their attachments and robot efficiently in the inspection area. It would seem safer than having the kids hold things in place with their hands.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by timdavid View Post
      I foresee some teams building a box/drawer/cage/walls or similar object to hold all their attachments and robot efficiently in the inspection area.
      I think Update RG10 would not allow that. "Equipment" must be for "mission-related activity". Passing inspection isn't mission-related. So the container isn't Equipment and would not be allowed in Inspection.
      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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      • #18
        I disagree. I read rule 10 as saying things only used for away from table transport or storage do not have to fit inside the inspection area. What is unclear is if "inspection restraints" need to fit inside. My guess is no.

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        • #19
          I read the rules/updates as you can use it; however, any restraints used during the inspection would then be part of your "equipment" (anything you bring to the match) and therefore would have to remain in home for the remainder of the match. If you are using the restraints to pass inspection and increase your final score, I would see it as mission-related. Only a "box or tray" you are using solely for transport to the table does not have to be stored in home.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by is1c View Post
            I read the rules/updates as you can use it; however, any restraints used during the inspection would then be part of your "equipment" (anything you bring to the match) and therefore would have to remain in home for the remainder of the match. If you are using the restraints to pass inspection and increase your final score, I would see it as mission-related. Only a "box or tray" you are using solely for transport to the table does not have to be stored in home.
            In my opinion, update RG10 clearly discusses a box or tray as being different from your Equipment. It doesn't matter what you're using the box or tray for. Whether you're using it to "restrain" the robot and accessories during inspection doesn't matter. Inspection isn't mission-related.

            Moving the robot around the venue inside a container is not mission-related either. It's just a handy way to avoid dropping the robot on the floor.

            The definition of Equipment includes that it must be mission-related.

            "Store the box or tray as directed by the Referee" is going to mean "Please unload your Equipment into the Inspection area, and then put your box or tray over there away from the table."
            Last edited by Tom Mosher; 08-29-2019, 01:56 PM.
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

              In my opinion, update RG10 clearly discusses a box or tray as being different from your Equipment. It doesn't matter what you're using the box or tray for. Whether you're using it to "restrain" the robot and accessories during inspection doesn't matter. Inspection isn't mission-related.

              Moving the robot around the venue inside a container is not mission-related either. It's just a handy way to avoid dropping the robot on the floor.

              The definition of Equipment includes that it must be mission-related.

              "Store the box or tray as directed by the Referee" is going to mean "Please unload your Equipment into the Inspection area, and then put your box or tray over there away from the table."
              I can see your interpretation, but if a team set their transport box on the table and it, and all the equipment it contains, fit completely inside the inspection area, would you force them to empty the box to demonstrate the robot and equipment passes inspection?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post

                I can see your interpretation, but if a team set their transport box on the table and it, and all the equipment it contains, fit completely inside the inspection area, would you force them to empty the box to demonstrate the robot and equipment passes inspection?
                Yes, and they're going to have to take it out of the box before the match starts anyway.
                FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

                  Yes, and they're going to have to take it out of the box before the match starts anyway.
                  And if the box is made out of LEGO, and the team tells you the box transforms into the jig they use in the launch area, is it still disallowed?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by timdavid View Post

                    And if the box is made out of LEGO, and the team tells you the box transforms into the jig they use in the launch area, is it still disallowed?
                    A jig is used for Launching the robot, so that is mission-related, so it is Equipment and must be included in Inspection.
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by timdavid View Post

                      And if the box is made out of LEGO, and the team tells you the box transforms into the jig they use in the launch area, is it still disallowed?
                      Keep in mind that I'm not writing the rules, I'm try trying to piece together an interpretation of the rules and Updates that I can use in training other Referees in my region.

                      I'd be totally happy if the situation was made officially clearer.
                      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                      • #26
                        About R19: ALL your Equipment fits in either the Large or Small Inspection Area (your choice), under an imaginary ceiling 12 in. (30.5 cm) high.
                        Does ALL means my Equipment fits the Inspection Area together at the same time? Or EVERY Equipment (individual) fits well is OK? Thanks a lot!

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                        • #27
                          All equipment must fit in one of the two inspection areas at the same time. When the team gets to the table, they will put all of their equipment in one of the inspection areas and then show the ref that all of it can fit there. They are permitted to use their hands to hold things in place, if necessary.
                          Norfolk, Virginia, USA
                          FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by wxystudio View Post
                            About R19: ALL your Equipment fits in either the Large or Small Inspection Area (your choice), under an imaginary ceiling 12 in. (30.5 cm) high.
                            Does ALL means my Equipment fits the Inspection Area together at the same time? Or EVERY Equipment (individual) fits well is OK? Thanks a lot!
                            All together at the same time, at the start of the match. NOT each piece individually.
                            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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