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CityShaper Mission 1

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  • #16
    I need to make sure I hit ctrl+v on what I write, on here, before I hit the "post reply" button on here, so not to lose a well thought out response.
    I'm not going to attempt to retype everything I just wrote.
    Originally posted by philso View Post

    You have not address my first two questions. If two robots do not meet up on the bridge, all the scenarios you are writing about are moot.
    What percentage of teams will successfully make it up the ramp and get to the middle?

    What is the chance that one of those teams is assigned to the table opposite your team during one of your teams matches?
    I did answer you questions. "Sure"
    Simply put:
    Of coarse there will be some percentage (I don't know and neither do you) of teams that successfully make it up the ramp and get to the middle. There is also a percentage that two teams will do so during the same match. So?
    You seem to be implying that the percentage will remain low all the way up through all the levels of competition, and that, some how, that makes the scenarios invalid to discuss.
    Both percentages will probably be fairly low during the first rounds of competition.
    Are we to believe the percentages won't continue to increase, of seeing two bots shoving or battling each other on the bridge, the higher up the competitions we go in the year?

    I, honestly, find it silly to have to justify the merit of discussing a situation that will happen.

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    • #17
      Am I missing something, or should the "rule 31 allowance" for Mission 1 really be a "rule 30 allowance"?

      Rule 30 is Interference.
      Rule 31 is Field Damage.

      I think robots colliding comes under Interference, not Field Damage.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by timdavid View Post
        Am I missing something, or should the "rule 31 allowance" for Mission 1 really be a "rule 30 allowance"?

        Rule 30 is Interference.
        Rule 31 is Field Damage.

        I think robots colliding comes under Interference, not Field Damage.
        I agree with you; it must be a typo. I've been waiting for someone to mention that point. I've been surprised that it wasn't in the first round of challenge updates. I've gone back to read that specific language on at least 5 separate occasions, trying to figure out if I'm the crazy one.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by timdavid View Post
          Am I missing something, or should the "rule 31 allowance" for Mission 1 really be a "rule 30 allowance"?
          Yes. This wasn't important enough to have a stand-alone update to correct it, but notice that update RG12 now cites Rule 30, so you can rest easy.
          Steve Scherr
          Referee and Judge, Virginia-DC, Maryland, and Ohio
          FLL Global Head Referee

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Feral_Goose
            Both percentages will probably be fairly low during the first rounds of competition.
            Are we to believe the percentages won't continue to increase, of seeing two bots shoving or battling each other on the bridge, the higher up the competitions we go in the year?
            Yes, the chances of two bots meeting on the bridge will be low at early tournaments, but it definitely is possible. In Minnesota, tournaments feature a "head to head elimination bracket", which increases the probability of two of the top robot teams meeting at the table. At national and international tournaments, the probability of two bots meeting on the bridge will be much higher.

            Originally posted by Feral_Goose View Post
            Ultimately, don't get me wrong, I love Battlebots and Robotwars. I, like my team, found myself slightly giggling at the thought of what system could be implemented to battle for the bridge. But then the coach side of my brain kicked in on how I am to be instilling core values and gracious professionalism. Those and this mission don't seem to line up.
            As I see it, it's perfectly gracious for both teams to go for the flags. I think most teams will simply try to get there first and then squat. I don't know how it easy it will be to push a squatting bot out of position, but that is legal. However, devising a mechanism to lift and toss another bot off the bridge seems to cross a line I would rather not cross.

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            • #21
              I'm hoping to see a few tumbles, and I'm shure the kids are hoping for many battles and falls. In real life those falls will look more like a gentle rollover, but in the retelling, and in their memories the robot will plunge over the edge of the bridge, plummeting for what felt like forever, until it splattered on the table, pieces flying everywhere. Epic!

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              • #22
                *gigglez*

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                • #23
                  +1 Dean!

                  I gotta say, I too am very excited at the prospect of seeing some head-to-head rumbles on the bridge.
                  Norfolk, Virginia, USA
                  FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think a robot which is stationary and supported by the Bridge (i.e. waiting for the end of the match) and is thrown off by another robot who is going for the Flags is still going to score 20 points for the Bridge due to Interference (Rule 30) from the other robot. The exception to Rule 30 only applies to the Flag portion of the mission, not the Bridge.
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
                      I think a robot which is stationary and supported by the Bridge (i.e. waiting for the end of the match) and is thrown off by another robot who is going for the Flags is still going to score 20 points for the Bridge due to Interference (Rule 30) from the other robot. The exception to Rule 30 only applies to the Flag portion of the mission, not the Bridge.
                      I agree.

                      I think the a lot of teams are going to attempt the bridge mission. Not sure about how many will try the flag.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dean Hystad View Post
                        I think the a lot of teams are going to attempt the bridge mission. Not sure about how many will try the flag.
                        Our fledgling team has been raising the flags with their first effort. It didn't seem that hard.

                        I've got a more basic question: Does "supported by the bridge" mean the whole structure including the ramp? Or the bridge top specifically?

                        If "supported by the bridge" then there is some room for coopetition; the two teams going up the bridge can debate which robot gets to go for the flags. If it's just the top then there's likely not enough room for two robots.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dwalend View Post

                          Our fledgling team has been raising the flags with their first effort. It didn't seem that hard.

                          I've got a more basic question: Does "supported by the bridge" mean the whole structure including the ramp? Or the bridge top specifically?

                          If "supported by the bridge" then there is some room for coopetition; the two teams going up the bridge can debate which robot gets to go for the flags. If it's just the top then there's likely not enough room for two robots.
                          The whole model is the "bridge". The flat portion at the top has no special status.
                          FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post
                            I think a robot which is stationary and supported by the Bridge (i.e. waiting for the end of the match) and is thrown off by another robot who is going for the Flags is still going to score 20 points for the Bridge due to Interference (Rule 30) from the other robot. The exception to Rule 30 only applies to the Flag portion of the mission, not the Bridge.
                            Please explain. The rules seem to allow forcing another robot off the bridge. If the scoring criteria aren't met until the final buzzer, that robot on the ground is not supported by the bridge, therefore no points.

                            Personally, I am disappointed by this mission's goal of jockeying for position. Where is coopertition and gracious professionalism? Guess, I'll look for examples on youtube so the teams have some actual examples.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by reese.haywood View Post
                              Personally, I am disappointed by this mission's goal of jockeying for position. Where is coopertition and gracious professionalism?
                              Coopertition is displaying unqualified kindness and respect in the face of fierce competition. Having the teams compete for the flags is not contrary to the FIRST Core Values.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by is1c View Post
                                According to robot game update RG12, "robot clashes" (i.e. your robot is stronger or faster than the other robot) is allowed; however, RG12 also states "any other competitive action" is governed by the second sentence in Rule 30 "If you, your team or robot prevents another team from completing a mission, the referee will award them the points for that mission."
                                I think RG12 is still pretty confusing. When talking about a robot be "stronger", what exactly does it mean? If a robot lock itself onto the mission bridge, say the attachment to press down the flag stick out a little bit so the other robot cannot push it back, would that considered as "stronger" or "other competitive action"?
                                And in this case, if the other robot pushed so hard and made the mission model broken, how would that be counted? Which team is responsible for this breaking of mission model?

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