Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Are starting templates allowed in home and the launch area?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Are starting templates allowed in home and the launch area?

    Hello! In years past we have always used a template to square our robot for launch against the west and south walls. With the new home area this year, we are wondering if we are allowed to have a template that goes through home into the launch area?

  • #2
    Originally posted by BethDuPlessie View Post
    Hello! In years past we have always used a template to square our robot for launch against the west and south walls. With the new home area this year, we are wondering if we are allowed to have a template that goes through home into the launch area?
    As Rule 21 is currently written, all your Equipment for Launch must be completely in the Launch Area ("your robot and everything it's about to move or use...")

    So an alignment jig would not be allowed to cross over from the Launch Area into Home and touch the West wall.

    However this rule could change, as official updates are always possible.
    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Tom! I hope the rule changes, it would be very difficult to consistently align the robot! I wonder if it would be allowed to have a piece of equipment in the home area that basically makes a west wall that could be used for aligning.

      Or alternatively, we could line the robot up with the template, but remove the template from the launch area before we launch the robot, that should be allowed.
      Last edited by BethDuPlessie; 09-05-2019, 03:56 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BethDuPlessie View Post
        Thanks Tom! I hope the rule changes, it would be very difficult to consistently align the robot!
        Perhaps one of FIRST's goals is to have teams rely less on pre-launch alignment, and more on navigation.

        I wonder if it would be allowed to have a piece of equipment in the home area that basically makes a west wall that could be used for aligning.
        Certainly as the rules are currently written, teams can have whatever Equipment they want in Home, immediately adjacent to the Launch Area, as long as it doesn't extend into the Launch Area.



        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BethDuPlessie View Post
          Thanks Tom! I hope the rule changes, it would be very difficult to consistently align the robot! I wonder if it would be allowed to have a piece of equipment in the home area that basically makes a west wall that could be used for aligning.

          Or alternatively, we could line the robot up with the template, but remove the template from the launch area before we launch the robot, that should be allowed.
          Or you could solve the missions such that aligning the robot is not important. Jigs and guides work best when they are used to save time. If the robot starting position is so important to a mission that it requires a positioning template or jig, that indicates to me that there is too little error tolerance built into the solution. Missions with high error tolerance are not only less picky about the starting position, but they adapt better to changes in mat and model positioning, slipping and sliding due to different mat textures, and bumps waves in the surface of the mat.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BethDuPlessie View Post
            Or alternatively, we could line the robot up with the template, but remove the template from the launch area before we launch the robot, that should be allowed.
            I was going to say the same thing. If you are able to set up your template/jig in home, align the robot, and move the template without disturbing the robot, that is within the rules. But, as Dean suggests, if your robot is too dependent on that jig for perfect placement, then there will probably be problems in the heat of the match. Make sure your robot can find its way across the board using the lines, the south wall, or the mission models.

            Comment


            • #7
              What about RG09 - Launch Area Stranding? That update says that "things stranded partly or completely in the launch area can be taken into home if you wish. If that action clearly/directly produces a scoring condition, the score won't count". I would read that as you can put a jig into the launch area as long as it's "touching" your robot at launch, after the robot leaves the launch area it's "stranded", and you can remove it and move it into home.

              Do you agree/disagree with my interpretation? Thoughts?

              Comment


              • #8
                The original question is if the jig can extend out of the launch area. It cannot unless it is removed before launch. The robot and all equipment it is about to use must be completely in the launch area before you can launch. Stranding is a different question, and I don't think it applies to jigs.
                Last edited by Dean Hystad; 09-14-2019, 09:27 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Suzann1701 View Post
                  What about RG09 - Launch Area Stranding? That update says that "things stranded partly or completely in the launch area can be taken into home if you wish. If that action clearly/directly produces a scoring condition, the score won't count". I would read that as you can put a jig into the launch area as long as it's "touching" your robot at launch, after the robot leaves the launch area it's "stranded", and you can remove it and move it into home.

                  Do you agree/disagree with my interpretation? Thoughts?
                  I would have to be convinced on that one. The definition of Transporting involves movement; the jig in this example isn't being moved. I would certainly be interested in discussing that with a team that thinks otherwise. I can think of other situations, but in the interest of not giving anything away I'm stopping no.w.
                  Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
                  KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If a jig is not cargo what does that mean? The interruption rules and update talk about cargo. If a jig is not cargo then neither the stranding rules (take away) nor the exception (keep if interrupted in launch area) apply. You can use a jig, even though that is generally a bad idea, and not worry about stranding. The jig still has to fit completely in the launch area.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Suzann1701 View Post
                      What about RG09 - Launch Area Stranding? That update says that "things stranded partly or completely in the launch area can be taken into home if you wish. If that action clearly/directly produces a scoring condition, the score won't count". I would read that as you can put a jig into the launch area as long as it's "touching" your robot at launch, after the robot leaves the launch area it's "stranded", and you can remove it and move it into home.

                      Do you agree/disagree with my interpretation? Thoughts?
                      I think that Stranding only applies to Cargo which is being Transported. That doesn't apply before the robot is Launched.
                      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X