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RG11 "supported by..." didn't make it any clearer for me

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  • RG11 "supported by..." didn't make it any clearer for me

    Challenge update RG11 didn't make it any clearer for me. The updated rule comes with a picture of a cup of water sitting on a book which is sitting on a table. The rule update states:

    RG11 - SUPPORTED VS SUPPORTED "ONLY BY"
    These two situations are scored differently. Remember the example below when reading Robot game
    text:
    ---The water is Supported by the cup, since 100% of its weight is held by the cup.
    ---The water is Supported by the book, since 100% of its weight is held by the book.
    ---Therefore, the water is NOT Supported "only by" the cup (nor the book).
    I can't think of anything that is solely supported by one thing and one thing only. No transitive supports at all? Does that even make sense? Now, I think I know what they are trying to convey, and to be honest, I don't have a better way of saying it. We don't rely on those types of arguments anyway (I try my best to discourage them and show them the risk of employing such a strategy), so it isn't a big deal for our team.

    What do you think?
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

  • #2
    According to the update there is no way you can score points for missions 8, 9, 10 and 13. That certainly makes the game easier. The test building is supported by the blue beams. The blue beams are supported by the table top. The table top is supported by the table legs. The table legs are supported by the building floor...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SkipMorrow View Post
      Challenge update RG11 didn't make it any clearer for me. The updated rule comes with a picture of a cup of water sitting on a book which is sitting on a table. The rule update states:



      I can't think of anything that is solely supported by one thing and one thing only. No transitive supports at all? Does that even make sense? Now, I think I know what they are trying to convey, and to be honest, I don't have a better way of saying it. We don't rely on those types of arguments anyway (I try my best to discourage them and show them the risk of employing such a strategy), so it isn't a big deal for our team.

      What do you think?
      How about for Mission 9: "Both the Test Building and the blue beams that support it must be Independent."

      I think (but don't know for certain) that might be what was intended.. Maybe Update RG11 will get a further update soon.

      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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      • #4
        To me it looks like the following: You would not score because the water is in the cup but the cup is being supported by the book. If the cup was on the table, then you would score. It is obvious that the table doesn't count as "support" because you have to have the game on something.

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        • #5
          Does RG11 mean that a unit in the small branches for mission 5 scores 25 points because a unit in the small branch is supported by both the small branches and the large branches?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dshunta View Post
            Does RG11 mean that a unit in the small branches for mission 5 scores 25 points because a unit in the small branch is supported by both the small branches and the large branches?
            No, it doesn't.
            FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

              No, it doesn't.
              Our team must be missing something. We will re-read the rules at our next meeting.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dshunta View Post

                Our team must be missing something. We will re-read the rules at our next meeting.
                For the Treehouse mission, the building units must be directly Supported (see Rule 34) by either the Large (10 points) or Small (15 points) branches. Not both. Supported is defined in Rule 34 (100% of the weight).

                If a building unit is supported by both the Large and Small branches, it will score zero points.

                RG11 plays no role in this situation.




                Last edited by Tom Mosher; 10-07-2019, 05:42 PM.
                FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                • #9
                  Aren't the large branches like the book and the small branches like the cup in the RG11 example? 100% of the weight of small branches (and therefore anything supported by the small branches themselves) is held up by the large branches.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dshunta View Post
                    Aren't the large branches like the book and the small branches like the cup in the RG11 example? 100% of the weight of small branches (and therefore anything supported by the small branches themselves) is held up by the large branches.
                    No, I don't think they are. You're looking at how the mission model is constructed. That is not what RG11 discusses.

                    The mission rule says there are two separate scoring conditions, one for the Large branches and one for the Small branches. The weight of the building units should be supported by either the Large or Small branches.
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                    • #11
                      Note that from 7 October 2019, RG11 has been removed.
                      FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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