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Does Mission 1 have to be the final mission?

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  • Does Mission 1 have to be the final mission?

    Mission 1: Rule 35 says that only the end of the match conditions count for the score. Does that mean that Mission 1 has to be done as the last mission? If it's not done as the final mission, then the flag will go back down and the robot won't be on the bridge.

  • #2
    "Have to be" is such strong terminology. No, it doesn't "HAVE to be", but as you said, you will not get any points for it if the robot is not on the bridge at the end of 2:30. There is absolutely no credit for doing it during the match and then leaving the ramp to go do more stuff. All of the missions are graded at the end of the match. Thusly, you only get points for the condition of the table at the end of the match. Similarly, if you put a block in the tree during the match, but then bump into the tree later on, knocking the block out, you get no credit because the block wasn't in the tree at the end of the match.
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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    • #3
      Thanks, that's what I figured. Perhaps what I should have said is "have to be the final mission in order to get the points" ;-)

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      • #4
        This year's challenge is interesting in that all missions are scored based only on end of match conditions. In the past there were usually some missions with conditions that had to be observed during the match. An example from Into Orbit would be the Crater Crossing mission where the rover had to pass between the flags going from East to West. I like the simpler rules this year.

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        • #5
          Can you drop blocks (which would then become stranded cargo according to Rule 29) to keep the flags raised while the robot goes on to complete other missions?

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          • #6
            Yes, you can drop blocks on the flags to keep them raised, but I ask why would you want to do that? There is one "valid" reason I can think of (that is, there may be a benefit to doing so), but I think the reason is quite specific and pretty unlikely to be needed. The mission is scored at the end of the match, plain and simple. It makes no difference what happens during the match.
            Norfolk, Virginia, USA
            FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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            • #7
              Hit submit too soon!

              Sp, yes you can drop the blocks on the flags at any time, but remember, blocks on the flags do not score you any points. If you want the points, you will have to remove the blocks and have the robot there at the end of the match holding the flags up. So you have to think of the cost benefit of such a strategy. There is one benefit I can think of, and it may or may not be important to your team's strategy.
              Norfolk, Virginia, USA
              FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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              • #8
                Your question indicates the answer. I assume that your Robot returns to the bridge at the end of the Match but, does not touch or connect with the dropped blocks. The end condition required to score is the Robot on the bridge and the flags raised any distance only by the Robot. The dropped blocks would be cargo when transported and stop being cargo when no longer transported. They are then equipment on the bridge and are not the Robot. So, they would not score because they are not the Robot raising the flags.
                FLL coach Trash Trek on, State 4x, World 2x, ref, judge advisor.

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                • #9
                  Thank you Skip and DJR - that makes sense now. Our team overlooked the fact that you can only get Flag points if you get Bridge points.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SkipMorrow View Post
                    Yes, you can drop blocks on the flags to keep them raised...
                    No, that would not be a scoring condition - even if the Robot were supported by the bridge at the end of the match.
                    The mission rule says the flags must be "raised only by the robot". Equipment that is stranded cargo is not "the robot".
                    FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                    • #11
                      My point was, yes you CAN drop blocks on the flags. No rule stopping you. But WHY would you? If you want the points, you will have to remove the blocks later and make sure the robot is holding the flags at the end of the match. The real question is WHY would you choose such a strategy? I can think of one reason, but it is a very specific strategy and I think the cost-benefit would not be worth it for just about every team.
                      Norfolk, Virginia, USA
                      FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SkipMorrow View Post
                        My point was, yes you CAN drop blocks on the flags...
                        I was answering the implied question "can you score the flag points by using equipment that isn't the robot".
                        FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                        • #13
                          Understood. Thanks!
                          Norfolk, Virginia, USA
                          FLL Coach and Regional Tournament Head judge since 2014

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                          • #14
                            I am really bad at explaining things. It must be true because after explaining something I am often surprised how the listeners understanding, or at lease my interpretation or their description, differs greatly from what I thought I said. This happens quite a lot in FLL. If someone asked me if dropping something on the flag was allowed, I might answer "Yes, but you wouldn't score points for the flag unless the robot is on the bridge, raising the flag up at the end of match". Roughly a quarter of listeners would be interpreted as "Dean said it is ok to drop something on the bridge to raise the flag". Maybe they stop listening after "Yes", or maybe "Yes" has special power because it is what they want to year.. Another quarter would leave thinking "The robot has to reach under the flag and lift to score points". Another ten percent or so would hear words that were not even spoken, possibly because they were thinking about something else or distracted by something. That about 40% that heard my answer. Given that I too am wrong maybe 25% of the time, especially early in the season before I have a chance to work with the table, there is a lot of misinformation floating about.

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