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  • Mission 12 White Units and White Circle

    Curious question to see what any of your thoughts are on this:

    As per the, color matching unit to color of circle, part of mission 12:
    Mission 12 Design & build
    ➔ LOCATION - If there are any Circles with at least one color-matching Unit Completely In, and Flat Down on the Mat: 10 Each Circle (Note: The Blue Circle is not Part of Mission 12).
    ➔ HEIGHT - If there are Independent Stacks at least partly in any Circles, add all of their heights together: 5 Each Level
    (Note: A Stack is one or more Building Units with Level 1 touching Flat Down on the Mat, and any higher levels touching Flat Down on the level below)
    There is clearly a red circle/red units and tan circle/tan units, but there are also white units and a white circle.

    The issue is, as per page 11 of the 2020/city-shaper-game-guide-pdf; section titled "Loose Models", one white unit is to be placed in the white circle as the starting position for a complete starting game board. (thus why we have 3 white units to use rather than 4 like we have to use in tan and red colors)

    So real question:
    Is white not considered a color for the color matching part of mission 12?

    This white unit starting in the white circle, at the beginning of the match, is never used in any actual mission. None of the mission involve the white circle directly.
    My team is looking at going out and capturing this white unit on the board to use as another unit in the mission 12.
    They are asking myself and each other if:
    • The already existing white unit in completely inside the white circle (in it's starting position) counts for a color matching unit that's also only 1 level high, thus and automatic 15 points?
    • Can that white unit be removed from the white circle, and be replaced with another (or same) white unit to count for a color matching mission completion?
    • Does the white circle need to only be treated like any of the other black circles (only it starts with a loose model unit in it)?
    • Could the existing white unit, already in the white circle, be built upon by another unit (creating a stack) forcing the original white unit to be a color matching unit?
    My team has voiced not wanting to have to rely on a judges decision for strategies they want to use, where a decision can vary from judge to judge.
    Last edited by Feral_Goose; 10-02-2019, 10:55 AM.

  • #2
    The white unit, if left as is, would score 15 points without you doing anything to it. 5 points for one level and 10 points for a color match.

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    • #3
      The 15 points for the preset white unit are only awarded at the end of the match. If the robot accidentally knocked the unit out of the circle during the match, then no points would be awarded. As a result, I do not see any benefit to replacing the preset white unit on the table with another white unit.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jasponti View Post
        The 15 points for the preset white unit are only awarded at the end of the match. If the robot accidentally knocked the unit out of the circle during the match, then no points would be awarded. As a result, I do not see any benefit to replacing the preset white unit on the table with another white unit.
        I absolutely agree if it is confirmed that the white unit that starts on the game board counts towards the color-matching and levels high aspects of mission 12, if it is still completely in the white circle at the end of the match.
        Ultimately the question, by our team, has been if this is so.
        Do teams gain 15 points from this pre-existing setup, of this mission, if it hasn't been touched or moved?

        If yes, then there clearly is no reason to attempt to capture the white unit, only to replace it.

        On a side note, if this is absolutely true, it appears that all teams start with a guaranteed (60 [Mission 14 Precision] + 15 points [Mission 12 preset]) 75 points, if they do nothing at all. (feels like the S.A.T.s with writing your name)
        Does this not seem a little weird to anyone else?
        Last edited by Feral_Goose; 10-02-2019, 03:01 PM.

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        • #5
          Yes, the team gets 15 points if the white unit is left untouched (if at the end of the match it has been left completely alone).
          There is one way to cause the white unit to get more points but I'll leave you to figure that out.
          Yes, every team starts with 75 points. I think that's great.

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          • #6
            If the team's robot fits in the small inspection area, will the team get an additional 5 points for that preset white block (mission 12)? And would this 5 points be added to their score irrespective of whether or not the team attempts mission 12 with any other blocks?

            Plus another 5 for Mission 14 Precision tokens?

            So teams with smaller robots fitting in the small inspection area start with 85?

            Edit: Just re-read the Game guide, and it says specifically that Mission 14 does not apply.
            So the question is just about Mission 12.
            Last edited by sbuzz; 10-02-2019, 04:01 PM.

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            • #7
              Yes, I believe you would get 5 extra points for the preset white module if the robot fits in the small inspection area.

              You don't get additional precision tokens for completing missions. You start with 60 points worth of precision tokens and lose one token for each violation (touching the robot after launch and before returning to home, for example).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by sbuzz View Post
                If the team's robot fits in the small inspection area, will the team get an additional 5 points for that preset white block (mission 12)? And would this 5 points be added to their score irrespective of whether or not the team attempts mission 12 with any other blocks?

                Plus another 5 for Mission 14 Precision tokens?

                So teams with smaller robots fitting in the small inspection area start with 85?

                Edit: Just re-read the Game guide, and it says specifically that Mission 14 does not apply.
                So the question is just about Mission 12.
                A team that never launches their small robot will receive at least 80 points at the end of a match. They will 20 points for the white unit in the white circle (10 for color matching, 5 for 1 level stack, 5 for robot fitting in small inspection area and scoring points for mission 12). They will also get 60 points for having 6 precision tokens remaining. The team could also receive points from the team on the other table inadvertently creating scoring conditions on their table (I've seen this happen). Scoring is based on conditions at the end of the match, so you are always starting with zero.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Feral_Goose View Post
                  Does this not seem a little weird to anyone else?
                  If you go back to previous robot game seasons, it is not unusual for the game design to pre-load the field with some mission accomplishments. This helps eliminate the possibility of teams getting a negative score (via getting more penalty deductions than points earned at the end of the match), which would then typically be rounded-up to zero.

                  I can recall a couple of seasons when many teams struggled to score above zero. That raised some issues about whether the team's accomplishments (i.e. doing the work to create a robot and show up at a tournament) were being appropriately recognized.
                  FIRST LEGO League Mentor and Referee/Head Referee since 2011.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tom Mosher View Post

                    If you go back to previous robot game seasons, it is not unusual for the game design to pre-load the field with some mission accomplishments. This helps eliminate the possibility of teams getting a negative score (via getting more penalty deductions than points earned at the end of the match), which would then typically be rounded-up to zero.

                    I can recall a couple of seasons when many teams struggled to score above zero. That raised some issues about whether the team's accomplishments (i.e. doing the work to create a robot and show up at a tournament) were being appropriately recognized.
                    Well......... cool! Didn't know about that in the past. Yeah, giving it more thought, it really encouraging to new teams.

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                    • #11
                      This year a lot of effort went into making the game more accessible to new teams. That includes
                      1. a point advantage to teams with small robots
                      2. penalty points were renamed as precision points and have a positive value instead of a negative value
                      3. "completed mission" at the start of the match (white building unit)
                      4. A solution for the 1st part of the crane mission.

                      And yes, this means 80 points without even running the robot.

                      Alan
                      Global Head Referee

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