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Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

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  • Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

    Hey all,
    One thing from the rules that was troubling my team was the combination of rules as follows:
    in [R02] it says "B. the absolute height must not exceed 84 in., C. the height of the Robot at the start of the match must not exceed 60 in., D. any appendage may not extend more than 14 in. beyond the frame perimeter, ..."

    Does the frame perimeter only apply for the X and Z axis, and an appendage could go up to 24" higher on the Y axis, or is the 84" absolute height a useless rule?

    Thanks,
    David
    FIRST 3566

  • #2
    Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

    you are correct. the 14" only applies to the x and z axis. you can go up to 84" on the y axis as long as you are on the side of the court where you are trying to score. if you are on the side where your alley is then you have to stay under the 60" mark

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    • #3
      Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

      Originally posted by FIRSTteam3566 View Post
      Does the frame perimeter only apply for the X and Z axis, and an appendage could go up to 24" higher on the Y axis, or is the 84" absolute height a useless rule?
      See rule R01-2 (new rule # in today's update; the text was there before) for the authoritative definition of "frame perimeter". It only applies (as I was taught, mumble mumble years ago) to the X & Y axes. Z (height) only matters for where the frame perimeter exists. 84" is the highest you can go.
      Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
      KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

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      • #4
        Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

        So, to clarify, I can go 84" up AND 14" out, or only 84" up OR 14" out

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        • #5
          Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

          84 up and 14 out. Just as a guess, the 14 out has to be either only in one direction from the frame or split up if the appendage penetrates in 2 directions.

          Definitely only 1 appendage may exceed the frame at a time.

          Note:If your appendage is exactly 14 inches in front of the bot and then you turn the appendage to the side, It may be a lot more then 14 inches beyond the side frame...

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          • #6
            Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

            Originally posted by wilhitern1 View Post
            Just as a guess, the 14 out has to be either only in one direction from the frame or split up if the appendage penetrates in 2 directions.
            Don't guess...check the rules. See G21.
            Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
            KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

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            • #7
              Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

              Created [R01-2] from [R01-1] original blue box.

              The Robot must have a Frame Perimeter that is comprised of fixed, non-articulated structural elements of the Robot. The Frame Perimeter of a Robot is defined by the outer-most set of exterior vertices on the Robot that are within the Bumper Zone, which is between 2 and 10 in. from the floor. Minor protrusions no greater than ΒΌ in. such as bolt heads, fastener ends, and rivets are not considered part of the Frame Perimeter.

              What about the 2"? Does this mean that you can't have anything that hangs down lower then the 2". Example, ball scoup?

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              • #8
                Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

                Originally posted by HoneoyeRobotics View Post
                What about the 2"? Does this mean that you can't have anything that hangs down lower then the 2". Example, ball scoup?
                Correct. No wheels this year; how are your hoverbot design skills?

                Seriously, what that says is that the outermost part of the robot within the 2" to 10" area is the actual frame perimeter. Imagine your frame looks like a stepped pyramid with 2" thick layers. It's not the top layer that defines your frame perimeter; it's the bottom layer, which sticks out the most.

                Your scoop can't extend past the frame perimeter; see the blue box after R02 for the reason why. But there's nothing in the rules that says your scoop can't be 1/32nd of an inch off the carpet. That might not be *practical*, but that's a design choice.
                Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
                KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

                  Originally posted by someonewhobikes View Post
                  Your scoop can't extend past the frame perimeter; see the blue box after R02 for the reason why. But there's nothing in the rules that says your scoop can't be 1/32nd of an inch off the carpet. That might not be *practical*, but that's a design choice.
                  Well, you could extend it beyond the bumpers, but then you run the risk of it getting bumped into and dying. If you couldn't extend beyond thvery seailye bumper, you wouldn't be able to get on any of the ramps

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                  • #10
                    Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

                    If your scoop was your appendage, then it could extend beyond the frame perimeter, even down low to the ground. But it would have to be retracted to be legal before the match starts.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Absolute height limit vs appendage limit?

                      Originally posted by FIRSTteam3566 View Post
                      Well, you could extend it beyond the bumpers, but then you run the risk of it getting bumped into and dying.
                      Yes, if the scoop was your appendage (which, as Gary points out, would have to be able to retract & start in that position) then of course you could go beyond the bumpers.

                      Originally posted by FIRSTteam3566 View Post
                      If you couldn't extend beyond thvery seailye bumper, you wouldn't be able to get on any of the ramps
                      You sure about that? Don't limit your thinking so soon.
                      Kansas City Region Head Ref 2014-present
                      KC Region coaches and teams can ask FLL robot game rules questions at [email protected]

                      Comment

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