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  • Mini-bot pre-startup question

    My team was contemplating the ways of releasing the mini-bot today, when a very interesting question came up: Can the mini-bot's motors be turned on before it is set on the pole? Could we have it so that by the time the mini-bot is deployed onto the pole, the motors are already spinning at maximum capacity, so it just zips up the pole?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

    <G19> MINIBOTS must remain completely autonomous and move up the POST solely through electric energy provided after the start of DEPLOYMENT by the permitted, unaltered battery and converted to mechanical energy by the permitted unaltered motors (and associated, appropriate circuitry)
    Definition of DEPLOYMENT:

    DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference. DEPLOYMENT ends when the HOSTBOT is no longer in contact with the MINIBOT. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)
    This means that you can only provide power to the motors by the battery after the start of DEPLOYMENT (or after the MINIBOT breaks the plane of the TOWER). So, hypothetically, you could turn your motors on once the MINIBOT breaks the plane of the TOWER with the current wording.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

      Originally posted by Cyberphil View Post
      Definition of DEPLOYMENT:



      This means that you can only provide power to the motors by the battery after the start of DEPLOYMENT (or after the MINIBOT breaks the plane of the TOWER). So, hypothetically, you could turn your motors on once the MINIBOT breaks the plane of the TOWER with the current wording.
      Thanks!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

        Sorry, but I have to disagree. IMO, neither of those rule quotes specifies when the minibot motors turn on. Someone show me the rule(s), Q&A from the GDC, or team updates where this is specified. You can't break the tower base plane before the deployment period, and all climbing energy must come from the Tetrix battery pack.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

          Originally posted by 2011FRC0175 View Post
          Sorry, but I have to disagree. IMO, neither of those rule quotes specifies when the minibot motors turn on. Someone show me the rule(s), Q&A from the GDC, or team updates where this is specified. You can't break the tower base plane before the deployment period, and all climbing energy must come from the Tetrix battery pack.
          That just made my day! Thank you VERY much!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

            Just remember, I am not the GDC, and their opinion is what really counts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

              <G19> says that the upward motion of the MINIBOT after the start of DEPLOYMENT can only be caused by use of the battery and motor(s). It doesn't say what those motors and battery might be doing before DEPLOYMENT.

              I agree with 2011FRC0175, you can have your motors on whenever you want. However, how long will the motors run effectively on a battery charge? You may be placing the robot on the field several minutes before your match begins, and then you can only DEPLOY in the last 10 seconds of the match.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                Originally posted by 2011FRC0175 View Post
                Sorry, but I have to disagree. IMO, neither of those rule quotes specifies when the minibot motors turn on. Someone show me the rule(s), Q&A from the GDC, or team updates where this is specified. You can't break the tower base plane before the deployment period, and all climbing energy must come from the Tetrix battery pack.
                Seems pretty clear to me from the citations already provided by CyberPhil; not sure why you disagree: DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the 30-inch tower base (presumably by action of the HOSTBOT after the END GAME has started). At that point, electricity from the Tetrix battery pack can be applied to the MINIBOT motors, and if that happens to start spinning the wheels before pole contact is made, it's still all legit. (I believe the update to G19 was at least partially due to a question I posed earlier to the GDC on this very topic).

                What I haven't figured out is how the MINIBOT will know it has broken the projection of the base or that it can start applying electricity to its motors. Either the HOSTBOT will have to tell it somehow (presumably by some custom mechanical interface) or it will have to have its own fancy sensor to detect the base edge or the pole distance; shy of that, I think in most cases, it will be pole contact that triggers minibot motor start...

                My $0.02
                Last edited by 2011FRC2159; 01-29-2011, 09:27 PM. Reason: Corrected citation provider...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                  Originally posted by Gary Voshol View Post
                  <G19> says that the upward motion of the MINIBOT after the start of DEPLOYMENT can only be caused by use of the battery and motor(s). It doesn't say what those motors and battery might be doing before DEPLOYMENT.

                  I agree with 2011FRC0175, you can have your motors on whenever you want. However, how long will the motors run effectively on a battery charge? You may be placing the robot on the field several minutes before your match begins, and then you can only DEPLOY in the last 10 seconds of the match.
                  We already have a way of turning it on when the 15 seconds start, so all we needed to know was whether we could have the motors running before we deployed. Thank you all very much!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                    Originally posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
                    We already have a way of turning it on when the 15 seconds start, so all we needed to know was whether we could have the motors running before we deployed. Thank you all very much!
                    You can turn the MINIBOT on (activating its sensors and brain, if it has one) whenever you want (most likely before the start of the match, why make it hard?) but the motors and wheels can't start spinning until the minibot is being deployed. This is not a time-based definition; neither 10 nor 15 seconds before the end of the match defines deployment. Thus you can start deployment (illegally) before the start of the END GAME, or 1 second before the end of the match (legally), but the wheels cannot start spinning (legally) until that deployment starts. If the refs see the wheels spin before the minibot enters the tower cylinder volume, you're eligible for a penalty.

                    My $0.04

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                      Originally posted by 2011FRC2159 View Post
                      You can turn the MINIBOT on (activating its sensors and brain, if it has one) whenever you want (most likely before the start of the match, why make it hard?) but the motors and wheels can't start spinning until the minibot is being deployed. This is not a time-based definition; neither 10 nor 15 seconds before the end of the match defines deployment. Thus you can start deployment (illegally) before the start of the END GAME, or 1 second before the end of the match (legally), but the wheels cannot start spinning (legally) until that deployment starts. If the refs see the wheels spin before the minibot enters the tower cylinder volume, you're eligible for a penalty.

                      My $0.04
                      Ok, so we agree on what is legal and illegal, but I think the intent of this question is to have a legal deployment.

                      To me, this means that the only way to have your minibot motors spinning up to speed before it contacts the pole (Legally) would be to spin the motors up once the minibot crosses the plane of the tower and before it contacts the pole.

                      All in agreement?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                        Originally posted by Cyberphil View Post
                        Ok, so we agree on what is legal and illegal, but I think the intent of this question is to have a legal deployment.

                        To me, this means that the only way to have your minibot motors spinning up to speed before it contacts the pole (Legally) would be to spin the motors up once the minibot crosses the plane of the tower and before it contacts the pole.

                        All in agreement?
                        Sounds Good! Thanks for all of your help, and good luck!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                          I disagree. The first part only states that is has to travel up the pole using the electricity after deployment. It makes no prohibition of using electricity prior to deployment, although I don't understand why anyone would want to, except to spin a flywheel, but that is prohibited.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                            Originally posted by bq041 View Post
                            I disagree. The first part only states that is has to travel up the pole using the electricity after deployment. It makes no prohibition of using electricity prior to deployment, although I don't understand why anyone would want to, except to spin a flywheel, but that is prohibited.
                            Our plan is to have the motors going at full capacity, so that as soon as the robot touches the pole, it fires up to the top, without any need for the motors to rev up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mini-bot pre-startup question

                              I understand what you want to do. I meant that I do not understand why anyone would want to start the motors prior to deployment.

                              1) It is just a waste of charge.
                              2) If you need more time than between the hostbot and the pole to get the wheels up to speed, then you fall under the prohibited flywheel category.

                              Comment

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